Where: Florida/Los Angeles (by phone)
When: February 16, 2026
Reporter: Stephen Cooper
Photos: Courtesy of Pekka Vuorinen (Studio One), Ray Hurford (Judah Eskender Tafari), and the respective record companies (labels/sleeves)
Copyright:  2026 – Stephen Cooper

PABLOVE BLACK: “IT’S A VERY, VERY CLOSE DISTINCTION BETWEEN HEAVEN AND HELL. JUST CHANGE YOUR MIND.” (THE INTERVIEW, PART 1)

Pablove Black, also known as Paul Dixon, is a legendary reggae musician known for his virtuoso keyboard playing but also for his abilities on the organ, piano, steel drums and other instruments. A master multi-instrumentalist and one-man-band, Black was a musical coordinator at Coxsone Dodd’s Studio One in Jamaica during a critical period of reggae’s golden age: performing in Coxsone’s studio band, talent scouting, auditioning artists, composing, arranging, and more.

A Rastafarian member of The Twelve Tribes of Israel, Black played on many big hits by legendary singers from Studio One, and at times, sang background vocals too. Black also played on countless other songs with legendary artists—including even Bob Marley—at other famous studios in Jamaica as well, studios like legendary producer Lee “Scratch” Perry’s Black Ark. On top of that: Black recorded and toured the world with the late iconic reggae singer Jimmy Cliff.

On February 16, I was blessed to interview Pablove by phone for over 2 hours; I was in Los Angeles and Pablove was in Florida where he lives. What follows is a transcript of roughly the first 75 minutes of the interview, modified only slightly for clarity and space considerations; this roughly 10,000-word conversation is Part 1 of my irie and historic reasoning with Pablove. Embedded throughout the transcript are links to music, exclusive photos, and more. At the end, please also find a link to the audio file of Part 1 of the interview—available on YouTube.

Hello? Greetings, Pablove.
Greetings, my brother.

How are you?
Alright. And you?

I’m doing good but I do want to let you know that where I am in Los Angeles, it’s raining cats and dogs.
Yeah.

And so the rain is coming down pretty loud. So I have to ask you if you can to keep your voice up as loud as you can. I have my audio recorders on and they’re running. And I have them positioned right by the phone but I want to still encourage you to speak loudly so that everything that you say can be captured for posterity.
Sure. Is the way I’m talking now okay?

Yeah and can you hear me well? Can you hear me loud and clear?
Yeah man.

Okay, good. Well Pablove, I want to begin this reasoning by saying thank you so much for taking the time today to speak with me for Reggae-Vibes. It is a profound honor to be able to speak with a legendary Jamaican musician like yourself who played such an important and instrumental role in the development and success of reggae worldwide.
Thanks man.

In addition to your solo work, Pablove, including your two classic solo albums, “Mr. Music” in 1979 and “Charcoal Charlie” in 1986—both of which I’m gonna ask you about today—you have, Pablove, I just want to say by way of introduction: I know that, primarily with your legendary keyboard playing skills but also with your mastery of a lot of different instruments, including the melodica, the piano, the organ, the steel drum, and also with your voice, that you have contributed to some of reggae’s biggest hit tunes with the topmost stars. And I was really impressed I have to say, [because] it’s no exaggeration, when I was looking at all the different people that you have recorded songs with—that you have done work with, Pablove—my mind was blown. And I had to very selectively—because I know that I won’t be able to talk to you all day long and all night long, and on and on and on—so I had to very selectively choose, you know, who [and what artists and songs] I’m gonna ask you about today. But with your permission, I do just want to very quickly mention a number of these names that I saw when I was going through all of your different credits for different music. And some of the names I saw included: Jimmy Cliff, Dennis Brown, Burning Spear, Freddie McGregor, Fred Locks, Marcia Griffiths, Abyssinians, Hugh Mundell, Toots & The Maytals, The Royals, I-Roy, U-Roy, The Gladiators, Johnny Osbourne, Peter Broggs, Sugar Minott, The Meditations, Judy Mowatt, Brigadier Jerry, Mikey Dread, Yabby You, Joe Higgs, Sister Carol, Pinchers, Beres Hammond, I Kong, Mafia & Fluxy, Winston Francis—and I could go on and on as you know. There are a lot of names I didn’t even mention.
(Laughing)

Yeah (Laughing). It’s a very, very impressive list. But Pablove, before we can get into your historic contributions at places like Coxsone’s Studio One and Lee “Scratch” Perry’s Black Ark Studio, it’s important I think for all your fans to first understand a little bit your background and your personal history—about which not much is known. And if it’s okay, I want to start off by confirming with you just some basic facts about yourself. Is it true that you were born on United Nations Day—which is October 24th—1950, in Kingston, Jamaica?
Yes, that’s correct.

Okay, good. And the internet tells me that your legal name is Paul Anthony Dixon. But I think many people would like to know right from the jump possibly, how did you get that stage name “Pablove [Black]?”
Well I’m gonna tell you. You know it was as a result of the 60s, after the Black Power Movement, and we started to identify ourselves in our Black cultural sphere.

Yeah. Did you choose that name?
Yeah, because I wanted to find a name where I could represent myself with—I think it’s a painter or a poet named “Pablove.” Even [at] Studio One it did cause a problem with the spelling in the first place.

Oh wow. I was gonna ask you—and I might as well ask you now: On your first [solo] album which we’re gonna talk about, on the very front of the album, I don’t know if it’s by coincidence or not—or maybe it’s because of what you’re saying—it’s interesting because it says very close up, if you were to open up the album cover or maybe it’s on the back [cover]. There’s a profile of you—
Yeah.

I wanted to—I wondered about that.
Yeah, well that was probably the printer’s mistake. Because I gave him everything [even] the liner notes. And I had Scientist on it, and the next youth [named] “Cousins” do overdubs with me. I included it. But the thing with Studio One, you know, if you don’t put in a certain amount of years you don’t get the recognition there.

Yeah. Well I’m glad to ask you about how you got your [stage] name. And now I also want to understand—I think from my research—especially from [another] interview that you did that I’m gonna ask you about—I understand that you were born into a very big family. Is that true?
Yes. [There were] ten of us.

Ten children. Wow. How many brothers and sisters then do you have?
It was balanced you know; five boys and five girls.

And what area of Jamaica—you say you were born in Kingston—but what area of Jamaica did you grow up in primarily as a youth?
Kingston 6. That’s Hope Road. In the Mona area. I was born not far from the Hope Zoo [& Botanical Gardens]. My father worked with the ministry of agriculture and his offices were up that way.

Wow. I was gonna ask what your parents did to support such a big family. So your dad worked with the ministry of agriculture. What did your mom do for work?
Well my mom originally was a nurse, but from when she started having children that go on the backburner until when she—when my little sister was five years old. My younger sister is five years younger than I am. That’s when [my] mom went back out now and started teaching shorthand, typewriting, and English, and accounts—and that kind of stuff.

Wow. So she was a nurse first and then later became a teacher?
Yes.

Very impressive. Because you have such a big family, I’m curious—I’d be curious even if you had a small family—did anyone in your family—your mother and father or brothers and sisters—were any of them interested in or skilled in music?
Yes. It’s so funny, you know, I just remembered [my] daddy used to conduct a choir in a church.

Wow!
An Anglican church. St. Margaret’s Church. Just a couple of doors away from where I was born.

So your dad knew about singing then?
Yes. And mama used to play piano, too. And she used to do typewriting. She was ambidextrous.

Yeah! Good with [her] hands. Now when were you—about how old were you—when you first realized that you too were also interested in music?
I’m gonna tell you, it’s when we get familiar with the Skatalites in the mid-60s. That’s when I start—I started playing piano in that same time. ’64-‘65.

I’m gonna jump to that time but I feel that there’s a period in-between that I want to ask you about. Because I know from the—and I won’t be shy about it anymore—I watched this great interview that you did for “jamaicans.com” about four years ago with a great interviewer by the name of Lascelles Chen.
Yes.

It’s available on YouTube and I would recommend everyone who is a Pablove Black fan to go and check that YouTube video out. And there are a number of things that were said during that interview that I’m going to follow up on today.
Uh-huh.

One of the things that I want to ask about [and] to maybe follow up a little bit on is, through school, and also maybe even the church as well, did you receive—before you seriously got into music, you know, and then eventually get to Studio One—I’m gonna get there—but before all of that, did you receive any musical training or musical instruction? And I feel like there’s a whole section here that’s gonna involve perhaps pianos, but also the steel drum.
Well, you see, growing up—the thing about growing up in the Catholic church, you get the opportunity to indulge in acting [and] that kind of stuff, you know? Arts—and different from the sciences. So I used to play like “Jack of Hearts.” And I was in the glee club at secondary school. But after your voice change and stuff then they don’t know where to place you. But now we started listening to all of the bands in Jamaica. And then Skatalites come and we get to realize that there’s a different side to this music then to just copy people.

Nice. And he had a piano at his house that you would go and play [on]?
Yes. Because I cannot play the kind of music I want to play at my house—it not working, you know? So I used to go down there now and practice. And his father come and say, “You read anything today?” And I hesitate. And he said, “Okay, go down in that corridor there and you’ll see a bookshelf.” And him would say 15 minutes reading, but usually it would end up being an hour.

Wow. (Laughing)
So I go in there because I want to practice now. And I go and take up a book right away.

Yeah (Laughing)—so you could get to the piano.
So the hour gets less and I’m there playing the piano. Because when I get there, his sister plays just [at] her music lesson. But apart from that, nobody don’t touch the piano. Maybe the cat might walk around the keys. (Laughing)

Yeah (Laughing).
So I start playing and playing, and after about a couple of weeks, I [played] “Take Five.”

That’s a song, “Take Five?”
Yes. [By legendary jazz pianist and composer] Dave Brubeck.

Now Pablove, of course you’re known—very much so—and famous for [your playing on] the piano, the keyboards especially, and the organ, and the melodica. But you’re also a steel-drum player.
Yeah.

And I believe that started early on, too. Is that not true?
Yes. Here’s what happened. My biggest brother, Walter (“Bertie”), he’s an LRSM [(Licentiate of Royal State of Music)] at 17 years old.

What does that mean?
LRSM is an English test you take and when you pass that you can be a teacher.

Cool.
Licensed from the Royal School of Music.

Nice. So he taught music then, your brother?
Yeah. He played in the philharmonic orchestra. He played French horn. He played piano fluently. He played trombone. And him was one of the men who encouraged me to stay home and play music instead of going and playing football or something else. You know?

Yeah. Nice.
He would pay me to stay home on Saturdays [to play music].

And did there come a time—I feel from [watching] that interview of you and Lascelles, you talked about a steel band called “The Young Wanderers.”
Yes.

How old were you when—was that your first band, “The Young Wanderers?”
14-15 years old. No! I played in a band in Campion College named “The Sundowners.” I can’t remember the [other] guys’ names now. It was in “Bam Bam” time.

[*Editorial Note: Pablove later clarified by “Bam Bam” time he was referring to Toots & The Maytals’ festival song.]

And what instrument did you play in that band?
Bongos. Because the beat in “Bam Bam”—most uptown [players] couldn’t play it. It’s a school band, you know, but the people that run it is like Consulate General from somewhere in South America. His son [was] in the school and they set up the band around it. So he might not be as good a keyboard man as me, but it’s his band. So I played bongos there [at] a nightclub called “Queen of Hearts.” I was 14-15 years old.

Quite young, yeah. So then how did you end up with the “Young Wanderers?”
Well, I’m gonna tell you now, my brother had some friends, the Goldsons, from around pon Mona. And dem used to come and practice with us every Saturday. So the guys in the steel band passed and saw me playing the piano, and invited me. Now Patrick Virtue—they had the band [in] their backyard. We kick ball together, you know? So him encourage me and him say, “Come check it out.” Because at that time the steel band was a garbage band, you know? [That] was the mentality [about steel bands back then], you know?

So you didn’t think much of the steel drum at first?
No.

“The Rudiments and Theory of Music.” I heard—my ears were perked up when you mentioned that [book] in the Lascelles Chen interview.
Yes.

You said that you went down to Music Mart in Kingston[, Jamaica]—a lot of musicians have told me they’ve gone there to Music Mart. It’s a pretty famous—was a famous music store in Kingston.
Yeah man.

And you went there and you bought a book—a red book—you said—
Right.

—and it was called “The Rudiments and Theory of Music.” And you pick it up from there. What did you learn from that book?
Ok, well you see that book now, I’m gonna tell you: I read it more than once. And in the middle of it it had a chart which was a cycle of fifths—fourths and fifth [notes]. Now eventually they started making the steel drums that play melody. Fourths and fifths because it’s a cycle, you go right around, hit fourths, and you come back around to the ‘C’—or you can go backways now—that would be in fifths.

I see.
You get me? So when I would go through that book now—it have a difference between the—each instrument have a different tuning.

Yeah. So it showed you that?
Yeah, it’s in the book. The reed instruments, the trombone man—their B-flat is my ‘C.’

I believe you said that when you read this book you were able to speak to each different kind of musician in their own language because you understood their instrument?
Yes. That’s exactly what happened. I developed—some people say it’s a gift—but I could identify the difference between the tenor saxophone, the alto, the soprano. I could differentiate between the flute, the piccolo—

I think it’s a gift. A big gift. Not everyone can do that. That’s very cool. Now I meant to ask you earlier, Pablove, and before I forget to: Before you bought that book, and before you started to get into the Skatalites—which I want to start to talk about soon—what kind of music were your parents listening to in the house? And also what kind of music were you and your brothers and sisters listening to? And did you have a radio to listen to music, or did you get your music by going to the sound system dances?
Well, you see, at that time you have a thing named “Rediffusion.” It’s one station—it’s in Jamaica. It’s not a radio in everybody’s house. [There would be] a radio that [would] hang up on a tree with a speaker.

Yeah, [like] a P.A. system?
It would hang on the tree for the whole community to enjoy it.

Nice. Nice. So that’s how you would listen—would that be one of the major ways you would listen to music then?
Yeah man. You have Mario Lanza and dem people there. And (singing) “What am I living for?” That tune there. (Laughing) The song that catch me the most was a song named “Stagger Lee.” And the next one [was] named “The Monkey Speaks.” Stagger Lee is a story about two gamblers.

Nice. So you liked that song?
Yes. And—just the story of it—it impressed me how people could be telling a story like that [in a song]. So easy. So I still have it in the back of my mind. Because I used to love music from the carol—from [when] I used to be in the glee club. Now I couldn’t take the beating on your wrists—

Oh. Yeah. All that physical punishment.
Yeah.

This seems like a good time to ask you, Pablove: When was it—around how old were you when you first joined the Twelve Tribes of Israel? And how was it that you did that?
Oh, that now, that is when steel-band time come now, you know? [We] renamed ourselves from [the] [“Young] Wanderers” to—we become “Advocates” now—seven of us broke off—the herb men dem broke off.

So the people who would smoke the herb from the Young Wanderers, you broke off into a different group?
Yes, because we smoking and [we] get conscious and dem—[some of the other Young Wanderers]—they don’t take to it, you know? (Laughing) ‘Cause dem times they would say [the times they smoked “they would get worthless”].

Yeah.
And form a smaller team. Josey Walton. He gave us his backyard to practice. Which was on the ghetto side there—cause it’s like you have one road but the south side is ghetto and the north side is middle-class. It was his place now—and it’s around there now where [we] start smoking. And when you’re smoking now—going with the chalice—it’s a different world, you know? It’s the biblical world of Rasta. So it works out now that we’re smoking, and we become the renegade band there coming up.

How old were you roughly when you first started to learn about the Twelve Tribes of Israel?
After ’68-69, coming up to the 70s. Because at that time now, Walter Rodney came to Jamaica. He was a historian. He was the youngest professor of African history in the world at that time. That impressed me.

And you learned about him?
Yes. We used to meet at different places—different nights—and talk about economics and social activities and stuff, you know?

So you would have been 18-19, somewhere around there, when this began?
Yes. All of us became members of the Twelve Tribes of Israel—which is actually Ethiopian World Federation, Charter 15. I want to make that clear. We became members of the Ethiopian World Federation, Charter 15. That was when the repatriation movement actually took root, because we’re saving now to send people back home.

Did you meet with any resistance because you’d grown up in a Christian household—did you have any resistance from your mother or father [or other] family [members] about the fact that you were now going in a different direction with the Twelve Tribes?
Yes. At first. Because everybody have to check now what kind of background the people have who I’m associating with and that kind of stuff. So at first it’s like all of us become outcasts. Even your brother and dem don’t understand. Because mi have a couple brothers who—and I’m gonna tell you now, it’s so funny, you know? I don’t think it’s that they don’t respect us now. Or [that] them underrate us. But I think the history of what the Rastaman has been through, historically, it’s like nobody know we involved inna that. You understand? So it’s an over-protective thing to me.

[Ethiopian Emperor Haile] Selassie [I] came to Jamaica in ’66, I believe—
Yes.

—but that would have been before you joined the Twelve Tribes. Is that true?
Yes.

But do you have any memory of when he came to Jamaica? Did you by chance, the day that he—when he came—what do you remember about that time?
Oh—oh. (Laughing). You can hear me good?

Yeah (Laughing).
That was the change in the movement of the youths in Jamaica. Because remember, you know, wi never grow up just to say “We want to be Rasta.” We grow up and wi get tired of the barber cutting wi hair and that kind of stuff, you know?

Yeah.
So the Rasta thing still have a little attractiveness to it. But when [Selassie came]—because we under pressure now. We under pressure from police who know our parents, as well as police who just see you and say you some grown youth who act like wi come from the ghetto. Okay, so we under pressure from all angles. Police used to beat me up, you know? Police beat me up. Police who know my parents beat me up.

Because of having dreadlocks, and smoking herb, and being with the Twelve Tribes?
Yes. Beat me for my dreadlocks. Mi had a big bundle that soared over my head. And him see me and him recognize me. Him [used to] come in my yard [and] come drink with my father, you know? (Laughing)

[*Editorial note: Pablove later explained that when he said he had “a big bundle that soared over my head,” he meant he had a big afro hairstyle at that time.]

Oh wow. And yet would still beat you. Now let me ask you this, tell me if you could—because I only know from reading in a book about it—but tell me about Vernon Carrington, who was also known as the “Prophet Gad.”
Yes.

How did you meet him? I guess I shouldn’t assume. I should ask. Did you meet him? And what kind of a man was he?
Alright, well you see, through Bagga now—

Bagga Walker, yeah.
—yes, Bagga Walker and Sangie—

Through the [steel] drums or through the keyboard—or both?
Through the keyboard. Hugh Boothe is the producer for [Fred Locks’s album] “Black Star Liner.” Him and Jahmiks music [and the next brethren Mickey Mowatt]. Okay. Hugh Boothe’s brother, Barry, see everything that is going on—he not dread up or act like he is Rasta, you know? But he big in music. Him have a piano at his house in Harbour View. So he leaving to come up to America to study. And [he] smuggled the piano out of his house and bring it come a-Sangie’s yard at Turner Street.

(Laughing) Oh wow. Cool.
So wi start bang that now. And mi and Bagga now walked to Studio One.

Wow. But then I think you were gonna mention maybe—I don’t know if you were going to, but then did you meet [Vernon Carrington, also known as “Prophet Gad,”] because he’s always thought of as the person who founded the Twelve Tribes. Did you meet him?
Yeah man! Me meet him early. Let me tell you it was—okay dem times there dem just started to keep meetings [of] The Twelve. Because they gathering The Twelve, you know? Because with Brother Gad there are [also] twelve brethren [and] twelve sisters. And seconds. So it becomes 49. It’s a biblical thing, you know? So wi cooperate fully in that endeavor [to] find the 49.

And did Prophet Gad play an instrument?
No. Not that I know of. He would sing. He sing some old time songs like what my mom and dad used to sing.

Now most of the reggae musicians who I’ve interviewed who say they are Rasta follow the Twelve Tribes of Israel mansion of Rastafari. They’re not, for example, Nyabinghi or Bobo dreads—even though there are some musicians who are—most of them are Twelves Tribes. Why do you think that the Twelve Tribes appeal more to the reggae musicians and singers than the other mansions of Rastafari?
No, because—I’m gonna tell you what happened. You see Nyabinghi and Bobo, if you don’t look like them, nobody not interested. Even we in Twelve Tribes was like that. If you is not a member, we don’t want to deal with you so close. ‘Cause me and Fred Locks go through that. And every time he reminds me about it, I have to laugh. Maybe I was over-stern, you know? Cause him say, after we met and we were traveling [together] on a bus and he called to me—and I tried to ignore him because he wasn’t in Twelve [Tribes].

(Laughing) Wow. So [the different mansions of Rastafari] are very particular—very particular about who can be in what mansion?
Yes. It caused shortcomings among us. It helped to divide us. Because you see me now, I have Nyabinghi friends, I have Bobo friends—I have all kind of friends. So we can talk sometimes. We have heated arguments, too, you know? But now we recognize that we are breddas in a Black struggle.

Right. That’s the most important thing.
So we put aside the differences for the greater goal of unity.

Good. Now a major practice of the Twelve Tribes includes reading a chapter of the Bible every day. True?
Yes. A chapter a day.

And some of the other practices that are important to Twelve Tribes members I think would also include things like Nyabinghis—where you reason and you might lick chalice then, too. And also eating ital and living ital. Are there other practices, too, of being a Twelves Tribes member that you would emphasize?
No, well, you see, those things are individual preferences where eventually if you follow it too much, the religion becomes a dogma. It’s a very, very close distinction between heaven and hell, you know? It’s just—change your mind.

True.
You understand?

Yes.
So [then] we get to realize that him is my brother, but him just don’t seek to be a member. Because dem used to say anything giant pop off and, you know, people have all different kinds of things to see. But we recognize know through [His] Majesty came. Because in ’66, it was the only three free days we had, you know? Like the police get instructions to leave us alone because we’re under pressure already.

Yeah. So it was a really special time?
It was so significant, man. I have the history in my head. I read in the newspaper in Jamaica and it’s saying that [His] Majesty said, “Who am I to deny them their faith?” Him say, “We and dem are blood brothers.” So I’m taking in all of that information.

Well, Pablove, I think what I want to do now if it’s okay is, I want to ask you: Can you explain, how did you first begin to work at Studio One for Coxsone Dodd?
I’m gonna tell you now. When the brethren donate the piano, it come to Sangie’s house a-Turner Street, right behind Trenchtown High School. [Sangie] say: “Meet me tomorrow morning.” And we walked up to Brentford Road ‘cause it’s walking distance, you know?

[*Editorial Note: Pablove later clarified that they could come out of Sangie’s house and less than one hundred yards away was a concrete wall they could jump over and they would be in the school yard.]

(Laughing)
(Laughing) So Downbeat just shake my hand and we go inna the studio. [And] I don’t remember which artist—‘cause let me tell you, you see, after a while, by the time we had been there a month, him used just bring in songs—foreign songs where him pick up. It might be a James Brown, it might be—

Coxsone would bring in these American songs for you guys to practice?
Yes. Before we start with any artists or anybody—because they [would] do auditions on Sundays. So we’d program the recordings for during the week. But when we come in now, him might bring in an Adam Wade song, and we make the riddim for that. You get me? Okay, like the Frank Sinatra that we did over for Dennis Brown. (Singing) “It’s impossible, tell the sun to leave the sky, it’s just…” You see him bring dem tunes there and say him want somebody to sing them. And Bagga say: “Dennis Brown ‘cause Dennis Brown can handle a big tune.”

So [Coxsone] would play the [foreign] tunes and you guys would figure out who would be the best singer to carry that tune?
Yeah. Well, Downbeat would select them, you know? Let me tell you. When him come down with [the] Adam Wade song, him give Delroy Wilson “Rain From the Skies.” Him give Heptones the next one named, um, (singing): “Come with me my love—”

(Singing) “To the sea—
Yes.

—the sea of love.” (Laughing)
And Downbeat select dem tunes there for dem. “Mammie Blue” for Horace Andy.

When you started at Studio One, what year do you think that would have been?
’72.

Now when I looked online, you know, there are a number of sites that show credits for different musicians. And sometimes they’re not accurate, but sometimes they do provide good information—
Yeah.

And one of them listed a credit for you on “Discogs”; it’s a seven-inch single on the Iron Side label—produced by Mr. Dodd at Studio One, of course—in 1973. And it’s called “Rocker’s Party.” And this single “Rocker’s Party”—which the people—they have to listen to this on YouTube—because you can. And it’s so cool. It’s a very melodic version of The Heptones’ hit-song “Party Time”—this song “Rocker’s Party” that you did. And I wanted to ask you—I mean this single—just a little bit more about it that I saw: This single of yours is paired with a very nice Skatalites tune that’s called “Coconut Rock.” So this is obviously a very nice vinyl record to have for anyone. That’s how I saw it online. And it’s interesting to look at because you’re listed on your side of the record—you’re listed there as “Pablo of Black”—
Yeah.

—not “Pablove Black.” Is Rocker’s Party—I think you know what tune I’m talking about—
Yeah man.

—was that tune your first musical recording?
No.

What was your first musical recording?
At Studio One.

And what was the song?
Oh, it’s hard to remember now. I’m gonna have to reflect on that. [And] you see that song [“Rocker’s Party]?” It’s probably the printer [who messed up]. I tell dem it’s “Pablove Black” and they just say “Pablo of Black.”

(Laughing) Yeah.
Because no one no know me yet, you know?

So even though you’re saying that’s not your first recording, that was an early recording of yours; maybe [“Rocker’s Party”] wasn’t the first but it was one of the first maybe?
Yeah. Okay, when I joined the outfit it was the “Soul Defenders”—

That was Coxsone’s studio band—
Yeah.

(Laughing)
He named “Rocker’s Party,” you know?

Oh, he did?
I didn’t name it. (Humming instrumental) [And he named] “Push Pull.”

Oh yeah—that’s [another] one of your [irie instrumental singles], “Push Pull.”
Yeah. You see, him name dem.

Pablove, my understanding is that there were a number of musicians who would circle in and out of that [studio] band [at Studio One]. Let me just ask you: Who were some of the musicians along with yourself who were in the Soul Defenders—also known [by] some of these other [band] names as well. Who were some of the musicians?
Okay, well, I’m gonna tell you now. You have a keyboard man who used to ride his horse up on the Red Hills [and he would come down for “Tit for Tat” [nightclub]—and [ he played in the band] “Skin, Flesh & Bones,” named Bobby Kalphat. You have Richard Ace who would come at any time. Richard is Ernest Ranglin and dem man there. Every time dem come, we have to have a space [in the studio dedicated] fi them. You have Horsemouth, you have Benbow, you have Hugh Malcolm—longtime from Skatalites days. He come from Montego Bay because they play jazz, too, you know? And you have like guitarists. You have [Albert Griffiths from The] Gladiators, you have David Bryan, “Sowell” [(Noel Bailey)], and every now and then “Rickabaka” [(Eric Frater)] come back.

[*Editorial Note: Pablove said after the interview he forget to tell me about “Privy,” who was “the soul of the Soul Defenders.” Pablove explained further that Privy was the band’s rhythm guitarist.]

Would Roland Alphonso be part of it, too?
Yeah man! If Roland come we have to find a riddim for him, man. That’s how we get the song called “Higher Sight.” Because he’s a perfectionist, you know, so he looking at us skeptical. And he say, “Sir Downbeat, Sir, I don’t know if dem musicians gonna make the grade”—and stuff and ting [like that]. And we have to sit down and talk about the music now.

Now, Pablove, how would you describe your responsibilities—I believe you would wear [a lot of different hats] and do different roles there—at Studio One. Because I know you were playing not only the keyboards, but you would play the piano, the organ, you would play the melodica, and you would help also to arrange and do different songs. How would you describe your responsibilities while you were working at Studio One?
Well that was the training, you know? That’s when I started to work with the Twelve Tribes band now. I had the experience now because I used to do harmony—chorus things. Me and Sister Enid [would sing chorus] on Johnny Osbourne songs. So it’s overall musical coordination. I had to do auditions sometimes. I had to do conducting—if there is a horn section there, you know?

I heard you say in that interview that you did with Lascelles that when you have a keyboard, “you have the whole orchestra right in front of you?”
Yes.

And so, because you have that skill, I would only assume that that helps you to do—to be multi-talented and versatile in music. That in can—addition to that book that you read, “The Rudiments and Theory of Music”—if you’re working with the keyboard, you have more of an advantage I would think than maybe other musicians in terms of understanding the “whole” of the music? Does that—
Yes.

—make sense what I am saying?
Yes. It was an advantage because I could teach myself to play the guitar off of the piano. When I find out how the strings are set on the guitar, I was teaching myself. So when we meet with Bob Marley inna Twelve Tribes time—inna early time—I know more guitar more than dem.

Wow. Wow.
But I don’t play guitar because my ring finger pon my left hand pain me for hours after I do any guitar work. So although I know it, I don’t play it.

Yeah. That’s interesting. Did you continue to also—when you were at Studio One—did you play steel drum, too?
Yes. But it was like [in the] background because dem times there, steel drums never rated inna Jamaica. Calypso was a Byron Lee thing, you know?

Yeah. Yeah. More of an uptown thing?
Yeah.

—because when you think of all the—so many legends that you worked with at Studio One including people like Horace Andy, Dennis Brown, Burning Spear, Freddie McGregor—all those people—Fred Locks, [some of the other legends also I already] mentioned, um, in your memory, Pablove, what are like one or two—or more if you want—what are the most memorable recording sessions that you had [and] that you remember at Studio One? Who were the artists and players, and what were the songs and albums that were involved?
Uh—hmm.

I know that’s a hard question because you have so many hit songs you worked on. But when you think back about it, what is like the session or two that really sticks in your memory?
Cornell Campbell.

Yeah.
Him always have some original style of lyrics, you know? And him easy to work with. Him and Burning Spear. Easy to work with. Horace Andy, not so much; him have timing problems at first, you know? So we have to re-adjust our melody and ting to fit him. But you see, let me tell you, this is when mi think pon music. I think about Ken Boothe. Because Ken Boothe was the man where—Coxsone used to have a program. I think it was from 6 to 6:30 every morning. And I had this school friend at Wolmers—‘cause it was in the 60s—’67-68. And his name is Horace Stewart. His brother, Delano Stewart, sang with The Gaylads. And we used to listen to the program every morning. And we heard this Ken Boothe song (singing), “I’ve got to tell you goodbye…” Seen?

Yeah.
So we decide to practice it on the piano before anybody hits the studio. And we eventually lick off the lock off of the piano, because a lock was on it. And [Horace] just take a big stone and lick off the lock. And we practicing. And we get detention for it.

(Laughing) You know, I have to ask—you mentioned Johnny Osbourne not too long ago—
Yeah.

—and Johnny Osbourne’s album “Truth & Rights” is one of my favorite reggae albums period. And I believe—did you say “you too?”
Yes.

Yeah. I really love that album. My understanding is you played on that album. True?
Yeah man! And sing pon it, too.

Yeah! Wow. Pablove, that’s such an amazing thing that you were on that album.
He have a song, you see, that I use it, I put it together with this Bob Andy rhythm and sing it. It’s a song [called] “Eternal Peace.”

Oh! I know that song.
Yeah, we sing pon that.

I really love that album. My wife’s favorite reggae song period is from that album. It’s one of my favorite songs, too. “We Need Love.”
Yeah.

I’m glad you mentioned the legendary piano player, Jackie Mittoo.
Yeah man. That’s my teacher.

Yeah. I was gonna ask you. I know that both the legendary bassist Bagga Walker and Jackie Mittoo were very important musicians and people in your life. True?
Yes.

And [they] had a big influence on you musically. You say that Jackie Mittoo was a teacher?
Yeah man. When you see Jackie now—when I meet Jackie, you know, Jackie came down [with] us for about two weeks from Canada. Because when I went [to Studio One] in ’71-72, he was in Canada. Him and [legendary drummer] Joe Isaacs. And [legendary bassist] Brian Atkinson. And I think going up in Toronto.

At some point Johnny Osbourne was in Canada, too.
Yeah. And so when [Jackie] came he came for two weeks and stay about five months. Like he didn’t want to leave. (Laughing)

(Laughing) Probably because it’s too cold in Canada?
Yeah. I see him [and that’s the same] time we did that song, “After Christmas.”

Oh! I’m so happy you mentioned it! Oh man, Pablove! I love this song. This song—let me give it a proper introduction. Everyone must go listen to this song. If you’re following this interview, you have to pull up this song on YouTube. It[’s] a 12-inch single recorded at Studio One in 1979. And as Pablove just said, it’s called “After Christmas.” It’s also called—I’ve also seen it called “God Rest Ye Merry Gentlemen.” And if you listen to it, your mind will be blown away because it’s so irie and so cool.
Uh-huh.

At some point in that song, Pablove, there’s a riff on the song “Joy to the World”—you guys start singing “Joy to the World.”
Yes. Yes. Okay that now is me and Devon Russell. Because it was a Christmas song originally, you know?

Yeah.
It was a Christmas idea.

Yeah. So you guys were just in the studio—I guess sometime after Christmas—and you guys came up with this song?
Yes. Because I played it for Jackie now, and he’s listening to it, and he put on the finishing touches on it. Because he did change it from a minor mode to a major mode.

Well I know that anyone who goes and listens to that song, you’ll be mesmerized. They’ve posted it on YouTube. And also I saw that this website on social media called “Vintage Obscura”—they often will put that tune out there. And everyone who loves reggae music, you have to go listen to this. Jackie Mittoo, Bagga Walker, Pablove Black and Devon Russell. And it’s really a special, special tune.
Yeah man.

Now I have to mention our mutual friend who we can’t forget to shoutout, the legendary sound engineer and dub pioneer, Scientist, also known as Hopeton Brown.
Yes.

He’s the one who actually connected us today—
“Overton.”

[*Editorial note: Scientist was also known as “Overton” when he was young.]

Yeah, “Overton.” And he’s the first person who told me that it was Sister Carol’s father, a man named “Mr. East—”
Yes.

—who set up Coxsone’s studio, and that they would send for Mr. East if there was a problem with the electronics and the equipment. And also there were studio engineers there, of course, who predated Scientist when he came [to Studio One]. And Scientist was only there for about a year—
Yeah.

So you had a lot of talented people there. But since I brought Scientist up, let me ask you this: What sticks out in your memory about Scientist? What was he like back then as a teenager? He was so young but he was already working there as a studio engineer at Studio One. What do you remember about him?
Well, I’m gonna tell you. Scientist had a flare in him that—even when I am recording, he filling mi ears with stuff that, normally, it would be distracting—you understand?

Yeah.
You hearing more sounds than what you want to put in it. [But] if Downbeat [would have allowed it], Scientist would mix my album, you know? It would be a massive hit with the effects that Scientist had. But now, Scientist play the music loud in the studio. And Downbeat play his music at a whisper [so] that if a door creep in his place, he knows.

(Laughing) So then how did Scientist and Coxsone get along then if they differed in that way?
Not very good.

(Laughing)
‘Nuff time we have to talk to Coxsone about it. Because like he’s saying everything he’s telling [Scientist] to do, [Scientist would] do it another way and stuff. Because when he playing the music loud, you know, and Downbeat [would] open the door and come in, [and Scientist] wouldn’t know that Downbeat is behind him again, you know? So [Coxsone] would say, “This is how you handle my things? All the while, I tell you don’t do that man.” So it caused a problem with Scientist, you know?

Yeah. How was your own relationship with Coxsone? How did he treat you?
Well, alright now, I’m gonna tell you. Coxsone is an “agreement man.” Him say, “In everything in music, you have agreement.” So upfront—because okay—when you [have] “Mr. Music” [in] 1979—

Yeah.
—and actually, I finish it in ’77, you know?

That’s your first album know that we’re talking about—your solo album “Mr. Music?”
Yes. When we make the agreement, and we signed the contract—‘cause he have to negotiate, you know? Because if you’re working for somebody out on the road and you’re charging one hundred dollars, and you don’t see him [but] once every six months. Okay, like Yabby You and dem man there. We work with Yabby You. We work with Burning Spear. And when they come through town, we find a way to excuse ourselves from the studio that day ‘cause we know it’s double money. But Downbeat run session[s] every day. You understand?

Hmm. Yeah.
He might not pay the regular rates, you know, but that’s his business. So me and him—he gave me some very good advice early. ‘Cause him tell me, “Skatalites men, dem bitter.” Him don’t describe it like me but I pick it up that way then. “Dem men there bitter.” Dem was the world’s best and when dem see some likkle youth now who come in who [is] achieving [in] the music business—and him was saying that it’s those people who smooth out the road for these people to come. Most people never understand that. But now—okay, if [Coxsone] was gonna record Jennifer Lara, he programmed that master group that’s coming in and singing before Jennifer Lara. [So] she [would see somebody that she admired—like she’d have a role model—like Marcia Griffiths]. You understand? [Coxsone would] always bring somebody senior for you—

To watch?
Yeah. To have a goal.

That makes a lot of sense. Now one thing I want to ask you about before I forget—at Studio One—and I know I told you I would ask you about him—is Judah Eskender Tafari.
Yeah.

Nice. And you guys brought him in to Studio One to do those songs “Jah Light,” “Rastafari Tell You,” and “Just Another Day,” and other songs like that?
Yeah. And “Danger in Your Eyes,” [too].

“Danger in Your Eyes” is another one of those classic songs.
Well, you see what happened now, we [were] setting up our own publishing company and all dem things. Because I never think about Motown, Warner Brothers—nothing like that. I was thinking about our thing.

The Twelve Tribes?
Yes. We were planning to do our own productions. And so the members dem eventually end up with Fred Locks—because what happened now is a brethren in Ghana was going to produce Eskender. But five months—six months—passed and nothing no happen. So Eskender get impatient. So we carried him to Studio One. And [he’s] one of the few people whose song came out within a month.

Yeah, right. It wasn’t kept on the shelf. [It was] put out right away. Now you mentioned and we were talking a little about [your first solo album] “Mr. Music”—and I want to ask you more about this fantastic album of yours, “Mr. Music.” Because I think it’s very highly regarded by most for your keyboards and the melodica that you play on this album. And I think, of course, it looks like Bagga [Walker] was part of the album too because he’s pictured on the back [of the] album cover.
Yeah.

With “Mr. Music” now, you’re [pictured] on the cover of the album of course. And you’re seated at a keyboard. And there’s a keyboard to the right of you and also behind you. Was that photo of you taken at Studio One?
Yes. It was in the studio.

Now it’s such a cool album. I was grooving to it just last night. And I really dig the whole album but, you know, I’m captivated by the two tracks “Soul Ride” and also “Shaolin Disciple.”
Yes.

And both of those songs, Pablove, both of them have a—to me—they have a Far East, kind of Asian kind of vibe to them.
Yeah.

Do you think so, too?
Well what’s happening, you know, you see that song “Soul Ride?”

Yeah.
The original was a song by Carlton and The Shoes.

Oh, I didn’t know that.
Yes. I was listening to it and I say I like that melody, you know? And he make me seen it off of the tape and we record it without the voice. But now the sound is now—is—I’m a martial arts man too. I study oriental therapy and I was doing it to instill some discipline inna mi two sons.

Ah. So you had that oriental discipline—that was already part of your interests back then. That’s why you have this song, “Shaolin Disciple.”
Yes.

It’s such a cool album. And like that “Soul Ride” song, too, the frequencies are so high, that tune, it feels like your soul is really going on a ride. It’s really amazing. And I would encourage everyone: you have to go and listen to that album. Now in your interview, Pablove, that you did with “jamaicans.com,” you said that you worked nonstop for several years at Studio One until you started touring with the legendary Jimmy Cliff. And even then you continued to do some work for Coxsone into the 80s until Downbeat moved his operations to Brooklyn, New York. Right?
Yeah.

Now I mentioned the icon Jimmy Cliff who you toured and recorded with, played keyboards with, and of course, you likely did some background singing too. And unfortunately, you know—everybody in the reggae world knows—that we lost Jimmy Cliff. He passed away unfortunately at the end of last year—in November.
Rest his soul.

Yeah. Can you tell me about how you first connected with Jimmy Cliff and how you eventually start[ed] to play with him?

Please check back on the Reggae-Vibes website in a few weeks for part two of this interview which will include Pablove’s answer to this last question and additional conversation concerning Jimmy Cliff. Part two will also include a discussion about: Pablove’s connection with Bob Marley and Lee “Scratch” Perry; Pablove’s second solo album “Charcoal Charlie,” recorded in the U.K. and released in 1986; Pablove’s involvement with the “Orthodox” music label; Pablove’s recent musical works, his plans for the future, and much, much more.