Interview with Jackie Brown
Where: New York
When: February 2004
Reporter: Peter I
Photos: Beth Lesser (Barrington Levy), Stephen Cooper (Toots), Courtesy of the respective record companies (pics/labels/sleeves)
Copyright: 2026 – Peter I
JACKIE BROWN: KNOTTY VISION (THE INTERVIEW)
You will always trace an obvious foreign influence somewhere within a Jamaican act, it’s inevitable when being so close to both Latin- and North America; the music is flowing from both sides, with JA in the middle taking it all in. But thankfully there are singers that come out as being almost totally original and pleasantly ‘Jamaican’ – call it native if you will – in style, such as our man Jackie Brown. This man was something of the housewife’s choice back in the early seventies, if not the people’s choice. A familiar and accessible songwriting delivered with a nasal tone of voice, you could even call it a ‘country style’ in all its simplicity, Jackie cut excellent lovers material like ‘One Night of Sin’, ‘Send Me The Pillow’ and ‘Miss Hard To Get’, along with the popular ‘roots themes’ of the day like ‘Lion Head’, ‘Babylon No Jester’, ‘Knotty Vision’ and ‘Wiser Dread’, the latter which gave title to the legendary compilation album released on Nighthawk Records twenty-five years ago. He has resumed his recording career after some absence and released a nice album some time back in ‘I Still Love You’ in a modern but personal setting, should I say it’s well worth checking out with Mr Brown back on form. I linked up with our artist in New York in February, ’04. Thanks to Jackie (plus family) for his time, Ejaness, Bob Schoenfeld, Mr Owen, Tim P, and Steve Barrow.
You grew up in Portland in Jamaica, that’s in the eastern or the northern parts of the island?
No, it’s in the east. It’s on the eastcoast of Jamaica, and the capital of that part is Port Antonio.
You were born in the mid forties. A big family?
Yeah. It was, bwoy, about eight of us. My dad had two kids before my mom, so that would have been ten of us, really.
Are you the only one who entered the music business?
No. I don’t know if you’ve ever heard of Castro Brown?
Oh yes, right! He was involved in production, distribution, and so on. Almost forgot, well, I did anyway…
Yeah, DEB Music. And in Jamaica he had another studio, I don’t remember the name of it.
New Name Muzik?
New Name, that’s right. And then my other brother from Birmingham, Paul, he has a nickname there – I don’t remember his nickname (chuckles), but he has a sound system, a big sound system out there in Birmingham.
OK, so there’s three of you who are involved in the music. Music was apparently ‘in the family veins’ in some way.
Yeah, in the music business. Yeah. And my dad was a trumpeter, y’know. My dad played trumpet, and I have other popular cousins. One who is Claudie Brown, he was one of the most popular percussionists in Portland. Everybody knows him. They called him ‘Cara Cara’. He was a real percussionist, he could play a marraccas, and he could count the nuts as he shake it. You know that thing with the calabash? You could count the seed as he played it. You know? My uncle, my mother’s brother, his name was Osmond Benjamin, he also played the tenor saxophone. So, basically, we grew up in music. You know, my father used to use the trumpet to tell us when dinner was ready, y’know (laughs)!
(Laughs)
Yeah, wherever we were, in the evening when dinner was ready he would get up and take up the trumpet and he would play a tune (fast) ‘papapapapah’! And then, we would run up the hill, y’know (laughs). Everybody would be makin’ it up the hill, just to see who gets up there first. That also includes Castro! Yeah, my next brother is Dapper Don, he has a sound system, his name is Paul – we call him ‘Dappo’. So I grew up basically with music. I sung on the choir, the school choir. I was very active in school concerts. I was at the occassional training school, Chestervale Youth Camp in St. Andrew, where I got most of my education. And I was also popular in music, I was the bandleader there. So, all I wanted to do, all I ever wanted to do as a child growing up, was to be involved in music.
Anyone else from that band who became a name in the music afterwards?
No, no. We all went our separate ways, but I was the only one who follow through.
You learned to play from an early age as well, or it was mostly singin’?
No, I am an accomplished guitarist. I play the guitar very professionally, so the first time that I played on somet’ing, was on one of my own songs in the studio, with Sly (Dunbar), Robbie (Shakespeare), Chinna (Smith), and a couple more people – Bowen, Bo-Pee. And when I played the guitar on the song, it was for Dickie Wong. So he was paying a thing to all the musicians, and I told him that I wanted to be paid too, and he said, “What did you do?!” And I said, “I am the one who played the guitar on the song!” And he said, “I don’t know you as no guitarist!” So I never got paid for the first song that I played on, but I played on a couple more songs. I played on a couple of songs for Joe Gibbs in the studio, because I was with Joe Gibbs for a long time, y’know, doing stuff for him.
Not your own music, but as a session guitarist.
Backing up people, selecting the artists that may come along. When Culture came to Joe Gibbs, I was the one that did the selection. Actually I was the one who gave them the dates to return.
I heard Blacka Morwell was involved in their initial days at Joe Gibbs too.
Yes, Blacka Morwell and I at the time was working at Joe Gibbs, we were on salary at the time. So, y’know, the artists used to come – Black Skin also. But I was also active with a lot of popular entertainers, I’ve done a lot for them. Because I used to run the talent show at Bohemia night club, and Jaguar Lounge night club, I used to be the talent co-ordinator back in the seventies then. And…
Where were these clubs in existence in Kingston?
Jaguar Lounge was at 32 Berlington Avenue, it was owned by Lydia McGregor. And Bohemia was owned by Raymond Hamilton, he’s deceased now. And I remember the first time when the Mighty Diamonds came, and I was about to introduce them on stage and I told them, I said, “I have three guys backstage, these guys are gonna be there!” And I introduced Mighty Diamonds – Judge, Tabby and Bunny, and they did a very good performance, y’know, and they just excelled on from there!
No, ’72/73/74. Like ’73/74/75/76 – all of the seventies coming up there. Then also came along from my talent show was Barrington Levy, he was also from talent shows of Bohemia. Happy Love was also from the talent show of Bohemia. George Nooks, George Nooks he was both from Bohemia and Jaguar Lounge because I was workin’ at both circuits. Yellowman came from Jaguar Lounge. Big Joe, he is the only one who ever – ever – look at anybody for a given interview and said, “Well, this man has helped me”. But, he wasn’t even Big Joe then, he never have a name. So, I used to go take him out of school, and take him of course when I had shows in the country, and take him with me. He was little and thin, y’know (laughs). He’s still going to school and… I called him ‘DJ Jolly’, ’cause I didn’t have a name for him so when I introduced him to the people I call him DJ Jolly.
That’s not ‘Big Joe’, is it? It’s Ranking Joe you’re talking about?
Ranking Joe! Sorry! It’s Ranking Joe – I called him ‘Big’ y’know, because him get so big now I always say ‘Big Joe’. Yeah, Ranking Joe. Also from the Tastee concerts, I was one of the executive officers for the Jamaica Federation of Musicians, and I also had involvement in ‘Day Fees’ (?) concerts. So all these artists also went over with me to Tastee concerts, including Yellowman. Nadine Sutherland, I used to work with a band called Rebel Vibration, and I went to play up in Rock Hall, up there in the hills of St. Andrew, and she was maybe about nine, and they brought her to us, y’know. And Bassie, who was the band manager, knew her dad and she did a couple of songs, like two songs, and she was good. Just a baby, y’know, we were very excited about her. We encouraged her dad to take her down to Tastee, y’know. A lot of things happened from there. Junior Tucker came from Tastee concerts too, so… I had a lot of involvement in a lot of entertainers who made it, because it’s my goodness. When I see talent – I love talent, I love to see and to discover musicians, people with ability for music, so I always help them. If there’s anything I could do, I always help them.
You had that feel for nourishing talents.
Yes, yes, yes. From 1970 to 1979 I also kept a series of shows every year between February to July it was the slow times, and it was called the ‘Rock Series’. And I used to provide entertainment employment for the artists, because no shows was going on at the time. So I built up something with the owners of the theaters across the country – the signman who rise the sign for the theater, the bandmen, the artists. So all I had to do was to book the dates and everybody would come along, I didn’t have to lay no money out. Because whatever money was made from any performances it was actually shared equally among all the artists, y’know. Like, if it was a hundred dollar, it was two hundred, three hundred dollar – every man was getting three hundred dollars. The theater would be paid for, the transportation would be paid for, the band would be paid for, and so we go to the next venue. And we were doing shows like Old Harbour, Santa Cruz, south St. Elizabeth, Grange Hill (?), Mandeville – just name it! We went all the way – Black River. And artists that was in this package were artists like Toots & The Maytals, Ken Boothe, Bongo Herman, Horace Andy, Freddie McKay, Dennis Brown, Gregory Isaacs, Carl Dawkins. Actually, every name that you can actually think of in that era – Mighty Diamonds, everybody was a part of this because it was something good. And everybody knew that, y’know, no trick in the business. That was like; whatever we make, we shared, and I was responsible for that, I was like the boss actually. I’m not takin’ the credit for being the boss, but I was in charge of it. And up to this day, whenever I see any of these artists that was on any of these shows, they give me maximum respect, because they always remember. And to mention Ken Boothe, Ken never stop talkin’ about the time when we did a show and we made a lot of money on this show, so I gave him double the money. I double his money, and he say, “Well, why you gave me so much money? This is for the next show?” So I said, “No, if the show had fell down without making the money, then everybody would go home without money. So if we make money tonight then everybody’s money is double”. That’s what we did, y’know.
What type of venues did you play at in the countryside, it was theaters or they had the odd club, or you played outdoors?
Theaters. Yeah.
You didn’t play outdoors, like a showcase tent.
No, we didn’t have the foresight on that, and it would’ve taken too much security to do outdoor venues, y’know. And them times we were only charging like ten dollars to get in. We go to a country and people would be scaling the fences. I remember doing a show in Old Harbour with Alton Ellis and people climbed on top of the theater to get in! You know, people opened the side-doors and all of that so we tried to use in-closed places so we didn’t have to lay out too much in employing too many people. Fay Bennett was a part of that, Dennis Brown’s father, Arthur Brown, was a part of that, those concerts. Bam, from Bim & Bam, was a part of that. We had everybody there with me.
Bim & Bam, this was a comedy act.
Yes! That man, especially Bim – Bim Lewis, a lot of people has not spoken about people like Bim Lewis, or Bim & Bam. Bim Lewis was one of the greatest playwrite, show-writers, writers for play, that Jamaica had ever seen. When he died I think he had an Order of Distinction. But that man, he wrote a lot of plays. ‘Gun Court of the Air’, that was a big show, that was what broke GT Taylor who is now on Irie FM. GT Taylor and I speak a little bit about it too, GT Taylor was the MC for all the shows across the island I did when I did the Rock Series. And actually, I was one of the first person to put a mic into GT Taylor’s hand to tell him that he has the ability to be an MC. And today he is one of Jamaica’s greatest radio personalities. He wasn’t on no station then, he was playing with a band with Bob Mac – what band them was…? Mighty Cloud! Also, even PHRY-FM in Toronto – Delroy G, Delroy G came from that period too, and he is on FM in Toronto – a very, very popular guy. He came from that era. I spoke with him last week, and he’s doing good, y’know. Same with Delroy Bryan, we call him Delroy G, yeah, and he came from that era too. We had Ruddy Thomas who came from that era, so did a lot of other people. There was a band that – this guy Roy Mico at the time…
Who’s that?
A guy called Roy Mico, I forgot what his real name was. But we could see that Delroy also was good at, y’know, something in music. As he get a chance, even when the band would take a break, if the band was on break, he was there (laughs). So sometimes people would say ‘Watch Delroy! Watch Delroy!’ You had to face up to get a bite, y’know. But there I was also very proud of him because he accomplished what he had, what he set out to do.
By the way, what happened to Bob Mac of the Mighty Cloud band?
He’s somewhere in Queens, I think he went into the printing business. I got a number for him and I called him a couple of times, but… I spoke with him one time, then I lost track of him again.
Were you a member of any group, like in the late sixties or around that period, before you recorded solo?
(Laughs) Actually, my first try was with a group called Silvertones, with Lloyd, Shirley and Roy. Then, the first song they did was ‘True Confession’ – you remember that song, right? But I didn’t record with them, because they would – I met them…
That’s right, Shirley – yeah, we call him ‘Shirley’ (Gilmour ‘Horace’ Grant). Actually, what happened was that the night before that they went to record that for Duke Reid at the studio, I realised that they didn’t want me to come. So, I never showed up, y’know. But I rehearsed with them for a while and was a part of the group but I never record with them. Well, after I saw that I decide, well, I was gonna do what I have to do by myself, and that was how it worked out. A lot of times I saw how groups acted, because at the rehearsal someone would show up and others wouldn’t show up, what do we show up to; one was late and one was in a hurry, and all a that. So, I wanted to be punctual and depended on me, so I just did it by myself, y’know, and that’s how it came out.
Right, right, I could depend on me. I knew exactly what ‘me’ was gonna do, y’know (laughs).
What was the first attempt at recording now, if we move into the early seventies?
I used to hang out at Idlers Rest.
Chancery Lane? Like everyone else.
North Parade, yes. Between Randy’s and Joe Gibbs, right there in front of the park at Parade. And I – before that actually, before that I came into Kingston in 1960, and I was supposed to be going to school. But for the love of the music, I wouldn’t go to school. I would be found by Prince Buster’s at daytime. Mom thought I was in school, but I was like at Prince Buster in the daytime, or by Coxson in the daytime. So I started to know a lot of these guys but I wasn’t doing any recording then. Delroy (Wilson) was the guy I became very close (to), and I became close to Bunny Lee. At that time the Wailers was about to be forming, because Devon Nicey – which was the Schoolgirls at the time, was recording for Prince Buster when they did that song ‘Love Another Love’, I don’t know if you know about it?
No, I haven’t heard it.
That song, it was a big hit at the time (sings the chorus) ‘Love another love, sent from heaven above, you were made for me…’, and then they had the Schoolboys which was Colin and Reju, Colin and Rejubi – the Rejubi now, and they were the School Boys and they did a song called ‘Little Dilly’. So I was up and coming with them but, I don’t know, they wasn’t makin’ it so I decided was go back to school, so I went back. So I pick up education for a while, for about a couple of years. Then I went into the army, and I went to do corrections. And while I was in corrections I started to try again, and that was when my big break came, with Sonia Pottinger when I did ‘One Night of Sin’.
But before this, didn’t you record with Ossie Hibbert?
Yeah, that was what I was about to tell you. I did a song for Ossie Hibbert called ‘Ishan Man’, and I think I did one also for Bunny Lee called ‘I’ll Fight My Way’. I did a couple of little things but never really broke, y’know, until I did that big one for Sonia Pottinger. And then it all started to happen.
This must be, what, around ’72?
’72, yeah.
How is Sonia Pottinger different, productionwise, from other producers at this time, as you see it?
Well, she was more like a mother, she was like a family. When you worked with her, you was a part of her family. She was a very caring person. You could go to her house, you could eat, you could go into her refridgerator and get something. You know, you were a part of her family. ‘Cos at the time Judy Mowatt, Marcia Griffiths, myself, Joe White – well, I don’t know if she treated everybody the same, but that’s the relationship I had, y’know. And I think it was the same with Marcia and Judy. We would go to her house and if we had any problems she was there for us.
Supportive.
Yeah, yeah. She was a very nice lady.
Seems like most of the artists that worked for her has a lot of respect for her even up to this day.
Yes, she’s a darling, she’s a sweet. I love her, I love her very much, y’know. And she could call me anytime and had me doing anything for her, ‘cos I respect her, y’know. She gave me love in the business. It wasn’t like other people that I worked for who just wanted to use me for the talent that I have. She was a mother.
Why did her husband, Lindon, leave the business in the sixties? At least withdrew from production.
Well, actually I don’t think he quit it. I think what happened is that – she’s a very strong lady and she knows exactly what she wants, and I think her husband felt a little bit of competition. He felt a little bit of competition, and he didn’t want her to be a part of the business. When she did – she told me a story about when she did ‘Every Night’, and when he found out that she had produced the song, she said there was a certain impression on his face and she thought that he would’ve been happy that she did it. But that wasn’t how it came out. Yeah, so she just get her independence and did what she wanted to do.
So he was more in the background from now on, or they had a divorce soon thereafter?
Yeah, they had a divorce but he went into one of the islands and was doing the business down there, because I think I gave a man to give him license to a couple of songs. But this was the same songs now that made me so big in Brazil, at this time. I am one of the biggest reggae artists in Brazil, I don’t know if you know that?
Yes, I’ve heard something about it.
Yeah, when I perform in Brazil my audience is like 25 to 30 000 people coming on to see me. And it’s amazing. But also, this had an input on Sonia Pottinger too, because she was one of the persons who were sending salesmen through the Caribbean south and Central America back in the seventies trying to sell reggae music to these people down there. And with those my music went down there too. So the shows, the young folks that comes out to see me now at my concerts, they grew up to us, and they used to grew up on my music too. ‘GG’ Ranglin had a lot to do with it too, because he had a salesman going down there. And Mr Pottinger was down there and he did a lot of distribution down there too.
Right, right. But when I landed at the airport in I think it was Sao Luís and I saw all these people, I never thought that all these people came to see me, and it was like 3000 people at the airport. I never thought, y’know, that was me. And I had a personal assistant with me – his name is Iwa Jones, and he said “Jackie, all these people has come to meet you”. And since that time they have not announced anytime artists coming into Brazil – they approach artists, like, because the people come to the airport and they step on the fence to crash it, break down the place and everything, y’know, trying to get a peak. So they always sneak me in when I’m going into Brazil. I’m going in and just have people to pick me up at the airport, they don’t know that I’m coming in, y’know, they don’t do that anymore.
Yeah. We’re getting back to Brazil later. So what was the link-up with Ossie Hibbert, was Ossie already working with Joe Gibbs at that time?
No, it’s that – Joe Gibbs and I was like brethren at the time, we were planning to do something. And I had a song called ‘House Rent’ and I had another one called ‘Mini Skirt’, and up to this day Joe Gibbs still think that this guy that did ‘Oh What A Mini’ – I had a song like that. I used to sing my songs, I don’t know if people steal my songs anyway, anybody takin’ an idea out of my songs, makin’ songs and all a that.
‘Oh What A Mini’, that’s a Willie Francis song, the Little Willie label. He gave Cocoa Tea his start in the business back then, I think.
Yeah! Right. And then Joe Gibbs was very upset, because he was lookin’ for me to do mine, and he couldn’t find me. But Joe Gibbs and I was like buddies, y’know. We’re still buddies. He respect me, I respect him. I’d do anything for him. Right now, he has an album there with me that if he doesn’t release it I’m gonna ask him for it, y’know.
When was that recorded?
Two years ago. That was a follow-up album for this one that is out now. This one that is released in the United States is ‘I Still Love You’, but released in Brazil as ‘Look ‘Pon You’, but it’s the same album. I just didn’t like the way the colours and the artwork was done, it was not done professionally. The picture that they put on the album cover, I was learned and I had understood and I looked at it and I found out that on the album cover of ‘Look ‘Pon You’ is the face of a dog…
(Laughs)
And it’s upside down! They turned the dog, they took the picture of the dog, and turned the face upside down, and it says ‘Look ‘Pon You’. So I didn’t appreciate whoever did the artwork or whoever came up with that concept. I know it wasn’t Joe Gibbs, because it isn’t Joe Gibbs’ thing to do. And I was very upset about that. So I changed the name after speaking with Joe Gibbs and getting the rights for the album from Sidney Crooks – Luddy, for the release in the United States. I just changed the name and they did a perfect job on the cover, and that’s how it comes out as ‘I Still Love You’, which is the title track. And the third track on the album is now in the New York and Florida reggae charts as number eight.
Who did you work with for that Joe Gibbs project?
That’s Hubie Banton, Lloyd Parks, Lloyd Parks’ daughter, Mighty Two. But Hubie plays most of the instruments on the album.
So this was produced at Joe Gibbs’ new studio? I heard he set up a new studio.
Well, it’s the old studio and he did a little refurbishing.
So it’s the same premises.
Yeah, yeah.
And Joe Gibbs and Luddy Crooks (of the Pioneers) work closely these days?
I think so. Luddy (laughs)… I don’t think they’re too hot right now. I wouldn’t want to say anything more on that, but I don’t think they’re too hot right now. They have differences, y’know, but they could be workin’ together.
Back to the Ossie connection again.
I was on the corner and trying to break through, but I was doing something with Roy Panton. I don’t know if you remember him?
Yes, from Roy & Millie? He’s in Canada now.
Yeah, that’s right! From Roy & Mille, and the song that Dennis Brown did the cover version of, ‘Silhouettes’, it was a song that Roy wanted to do in instrumental, so he had Bobby Ellis doing it in instrumental and calling it some kind of different name. Pete Weston (of Micron fame) was in the studio and he had a song (sings): ‘Took a walk down and passed by your house, late last night…’. And I said to Roy Panton, “Why don’t you do the song, vocally?” And he played it – I forget the name of it, and he played it in instrumental, and about two weeks later Pete Weston had Dennis Brown do the song, and it became an instant hit! So there I was hangin’ out with Ossie and Ossie said, “Well, I want you to do a song for me”. So I sing about three songs, and he selected one which was ‘Ishan Man’. That was my first song, my first song.
It wasn’t even Ossie’s label, I don’t even know what label he put it on. But you know, Ossie was a keyboard player at the time, became engineer.
Yeah, Ossie and Blacka Morwell. You know, Joe is an easy-going guy, he was at the time, y’know, didn’t let nutten bother him while we didn’t have anything to do. We hang out at a certain location, go by his house and cook. It’s different from what it is today, and I just wanna let you know a little bit more about the business. Because there’s people that make the business, mould the business, workin’ the business, and their names was never mentioned. I don’t know if people don’t remember them, never heard of them, or…
Or simply don’t care.
Don’t care! But there was this man called Drumbago, you ever heard of him?
‘Drumbago’ Parks, the drummer?
Yes! Nobody even mention Drumbago! And that man, I remember when I came from country – I used to hang out by Prince Buster in Federal studio, when they had one track. And if you listen to songs like (sings): ‘There you are mama…’ – Derrick Morgan, ‘… dressed in blue’. Listen to the drums! In those songs you hear that ‘boh, boh’ – but it’s a different kick! Different kick. Rasta Jerry (Skatalites’ guitarist Jah Jerry Haynes, now retired), with this lickle bass and with this lickle guitar, y’know. Lloyd Brevett, Raymond Harper, Tommy McCook, just to name a few of these people. They are the founding fathers, they are the founding fathers! At that time, Richard Khouri had one track at Federal, and they had to record and they had to play and sing at the same time. I remember the day when ‘Wash Wash’ was done (sings): ‘Wash wash…’, it was a…
Prince Buster.
Prince Buster, with Lloyd Charmers, Skully, not Lloyd Charmers – Teddy Charmers, Skully and a couple more people. And they clapped and sung. They clap and they sing at the same time, two or three times. I remember when Raymond Harper played ‘African Blood’ (hums) ‘pada padadadaa’, I was in the studio. And I would just like to big up the families, ‘cos I know the relatives of people like Drumbago, Jerry, Lloyd Brevett, Raymond Harper, Don Drummonds, Roland Alphonso, Tommy McCook – the old Skatalites family, I would big them up. Let the families of these people know what their father, grandfather or uncle, what contribution they have made this ya reggae music, why this ya reggae music is so big today. It started with those people. Those people, Richard Khouri – that was one of the first man to ever have a recording studio. The other studio was, wha’- Atlantic, became Dynamic (West Indies, WIRL, was purchased by Byron Lee and renamed Dynamic in the late sixties). I was a little boy! I couldn’t have been more than maybe, wha’, twelve, thirteen, but I learned. Because this is what I wanted, and this is what I was looking for. So a lot of times when they thought I was in school, I wasn’t there. I was going off to what I wanted, I was going off to what I loved. And I remember Bob, Bob Marley and I was very close, we had mutual respect for eachother. We always pass eachother, and when I opened my first record store, he tell me – I went up to Hope Road to look for him one day, and he said, “You are always doing somet’ing, you’re always trying”. “You reach here to take ten each of all my albums, pay me what you can pay”. And then he just send a guy – he send his salesman to my record store, they call them ‘Wailers’. I never notice the name, but everybody that was around the Gong was the Wailers, everybody was Wailers (chuckles).
Where was the shop?
It was at Eastwood Park Road on the other side of Odeon Theater, right opposite JBC (the Jamaica Broadcasting Corp. became part of RJR later on). It was called Sun Bird Records. And I had a record shop down on King Street too, that was Telegraph Records. Yeah, but you know seh Bob see I was always trying.
What time did you set up those shops?
In ’74, and the other store I pack up, came uptown and I run the other store from about ’76 to 1980. But I was also doing a lot of travelling at the time, ‘cos ‘Miss Hard To Get’ was released in Guyana and stayed on the charts down there for eighteen weeks. So, along with myself, Barbara Jones, GT Taylor, Prince Edwards – the Fireman (comedian), Tony Ricardo from Trinidad/Guyana, Glen Peach, Tommy Bash – these were people from the Guyana/Trinidad. We did a tour of Guyana, Surinam, and French Guyana which is Cayaam. That tour last for about six months we’re down there.
Wow.
And it’s Dutch country, but reggae music was takin’ its toll down there.
You don’t learn much about the popularity of Jamaican acts and their touring circuit in other parts of the Caribbean at the time though, maybe Trinidad, but this is news to me.
Right, right. So you know when I went into Surinam, the only thing I knew they called me ‘Englishman’, y’know (chuckles). You know, ‘Hey Englishman!’ (laughs). Yeah, it was so funny to see they called me ‘Englishman’. I remember one night I wanted some milk, ‘cos I was havin’ an absessed stomach and they told me if I get some milk, then… so I went to the store and I aksed the guy if he had milk and he didn’t understand me, so I said ‘Milk!’ And he just said ‘Wha’?’ I said ‘milk?’, so I did try to get milk. So I came up with a smart idea, so I look at him and I made a sound of a cow. I said (imitates a mooing cow!) ‘uummmmm!’ He said, “Oh! Mèlluk!” And (laughs) – that was so funny! You know, I got the milk. But when you travel to these countries and don’t speak their languages it’s kinda hard, y’know. I’m plannin’ to beat… I’m doing a festival in Brazil in July, and I speak Portugese very well right now. But I still have my tape and my CD player and I could get around. I can get around, but I’m learnin’ more Portugese, because I might be livin’ down there soon. Jimmy Cliff is living in Salvador right now.
Right, I heard he’s in Brazil a lot of the time, and Joe Gibbs too.
Yeah, well, I was down there with him, because he was trying to establish a lot of things. But Luddy Crooks is down there now and a lot of people from England, I heard Chips (Richards, Sky Note?) is down there, Bill Campbell (B&B label) very regular. But they’re all in Sao Luís, but I’m going to Belém, that’s where I really love, Belém. That’s where I might end up.
What other people moved there? I know Junior Marvin, the Wailers’ guitarist ended up there for a while.
Right now, a lot of American and Caribbean reggae artists/singers is moving into Brazil. It’s very loving, it’s very peaceful, like today Saturday twelve o’clock, I know in Sao Luis all the stores are closed twelve o’clock and everybody go to the beach. And they play music, do barbeque, partying. It’s just a lovely place to be. It’s very peaceful and lovely, I hope that it’s keeping that way, that it never change. Because if you’re looking for peace of mind right now, I think that’s the best place to find.
Yeah, well, basically Brazil has 52. 5 million people, and has about twenty different little countries, little islands itching on to it, y’know. So that will happen, but it depends on where you choose to live.
Right.
‘Cos if I’m gonna leave New York, I’m not moving to another big city. And as far as I can see, if I can live in New York, then I can live anywhere else in the world. Because when you live in New York the first rule is to mind your own business, and wherever you go the first rule is to mind your own business. And if you mind your own business you can live as long as God help you, he choose for you to live, y’know, because then you’d be out of trouble.You see and you don’t see. But if you see things that don’t belong to you and you wanna meddle into it, people gonna do what they have to do, because it’s a jungle out there. Yeah. So, I don’t even know a word about, because the cities that I know I don’t have no problem. And, I don’t know, maybe because I’m an artist and I always have security with me, I always have people watching my back. So I’m in a different position, ‘cos I always have security wherever I go. Like in Brazil for the stream that I pull, I can’t even be normally walk the street. I remember when I was at a drug store, I was in there for about ten minutes and I look aside and I saw like twenty people staring inside. And when I looked back in another ten minutes I had about a hundred, and they had to pull the shades down. Basically when I’m going to the store I ain’t going anywhere else, they pick me up and take me directly to the location, and I do what I have to do. I pick all my buying for shoes or clothes or whatever, jewellry things. And I go straight to the drugstore and I stay inside there and they take me back, and I go back to the hotel. I don’t like walk around in the streets and all that sort of stuff. When you’re an entertainer, whenever or wherever you are popular, you can’t walk the streets. I remember I did a concert, I was changing my clothes, and I was in the trailer changing my clothes and I heard a sound, and when I looked a couple of ladies ran through the trailer, grabbed my pants and my shirt I was takin’ off, changing, and they ran away with it!
(Laughs)
(Laughs) You think it’s funny, but they just want a piece of you! You know, people try to pull my ring off the finger.
A trophy or whatever, souvenir.
Right. I have a strong security, his name is Avery Joseph. He weighs about three hundred pounds and he’s broad, so anytime somebody try to grab me I run behind him (laughs)!
(Laughs)
(Laughs) Yeah! Very big. If you get a chance to see him you will see him.
So you left Ossie and moved over to Joe Gibbs and tried something there.
Yeah, I moved to Joe Gibbs and I did a song called – I did a couple of songs, I did ‘Youth In My Kakhi’, and I did a series of songs for Joe Gibbs that was never released. Maybe about six of Nat ‘King’ Cole songs. I think I did (sings): ‘Mona Lisa, o Mona Lisa, how I love you… tada tadi tada…’. I did a couple – quite a few, I don’t know what became of them, and up until I did ‘Send Me The Pillow’. But I was recording for Joe Gibbs steady, and this was out of the era when ‘Send Me The Pillow’ bust up. But all those recordings was never released, I don’t know if he knows that he has them. But Mr Thompson (now deceased), who was the engineer at the time, Errol should know that they have them. And then I went down to do that album for Harry J, did you know about that album?
The one I’m aware of is the ‘Greatest Hits’ LP for Prince Tony’s label in the mid seventies. But there’s one for Harry too, right, I forgot about that.
Yea, that’s some of my better songs, some of my better songs. And the national anthem song for me in Brazil came from that album, it’s called ‘Poor Man’s Portion’ (sings): ‘I know nobody now, it wasn’t so in the beginning…’. Anywhere I go they sing this song in South Central America, because that’s a big song. I think a couple of guys has done it over, I think Honey Boy has done that song over. Somebody else, too, it look like somebody did it over in Brazil there, and I think it’s one of the Brazilian artists has done it over. But I did twelve songs for Harry J: ‘Dance With You’, ‘One Step Beyond’, I have them here. That album was also released in Europe. Then I did an album for Prince Tony. No – after I did this for Prince Tony I did the Harry J album. But I just like to say that in those days, artists was not paid, y’know. We didn’t make any money. A lot of people don’t like when you touch on those, so who knows.
But it’s necessary to point it out too, to try and set the record straight.
Right. I was not educated in the business, so when I write my songs, producers used to take the publishing and take credit for work that he didn’t do. And that goes for Harry J, because all the songs on the album I wrote them! And I just found out about a year ago that he had published my music under his music thing, and as ‘writer’ and ‘producer’, an’ that’s very bad! But I’m claiming the album now, so they can go ahead and do what they wanna do. Because all these people that I did recording for would never give me a statement over all these years. They’re still selling my products, and it’s take-back time now! I’m takin’ back every single work that is out there – they are mine! M I N E! Mine. And I’m putting them out, because I’m gonna make my money that was not given to me. And this is a message I’m sending, to all the artists out there who was ripped off, who was not paid, and the product is still being sold out there by people: Go ahead! Your music, your songs, is your property during your lifetime, and fifty years after you’re dead. So this can go on for generation to generation, your kids copyright, great grandkids, and on and on. And put that in your will! And it will go on to all these generations, making your work will automatically goes on through your generation to your children to your grandchildren. They don’t even have to copyright it! You know, I don’t like to touch on these topics because they make me very angry. It makes me very angry, because all those things that Joe Gibbs and I used to do – yes! But he never paid me for ‘Send Me The Pillow’, and I was the only one who made ‘Send Me The Pillow’ – it sold half a million copy! And we had big things on that! He never paid me. When Mrs Hugh made up the royalty statement to give me, I told Mrs Hugh that I was workin’ at the studio at the time when I did the song. He never paid me no royalty. That song sell, sell, sell, and it’s still selling. It’s now mine – M I N E! Because none of these producers can take me to court for anything – you know why? Because they will have to show the judge documents. It’s my voice, it’s my times, it’s my music, and I was not paid for it. I have children…
No, they have nothing.
Yeah! And they have a limitation of twenty years, it’s dead! Because firstly, they should’ve leased these things from me for a period of time. Now I’m educated in the business, I know they should’ve at least – it doesn’t matter how long, they could’ve me sign at least for a hundred years! If I had signed at least for a hundred years I couldn’t claim these things, you know that? ‘Cos they would have them for at least a hundred years. They have no documents. And all I’m saying is that they didn’t pay me. You understand me? They didn’t pay me. They made their money, they didn’t pay me. They did not pay me! I wouldn’t want to go too deep with the business, into the interview, but every side have another side.
Exactly, and almost every artist from this era have the same story about that.
Right. And I remember when we used to sit on the corner right there at Idlers’ Rest, and if we didn’t make no money that day, then whoever made money would share with you. If Freddie McKay had a ten dollar he would maybe give me two or give Keith Poppin two or maybe give David Isaacs two and another artist like Horace Andy two, and he would give two and the same thing the next day, with he who had not made money. And the day when everybody come in and he want to do a show somewhere and he bring the advance come, and everybody made money. And so forth and so fifth.
You had to get together.
Right. And everybody would have to come to Idlers’ Rest, Jacob Miller would have to come there. We were very happy when Bob (Marley) passed through. You felt very comfortable around him, and we didn’t know what it was, that he had an aura with him, that he was chosen. He was a Messiah, he was a prophet. But there was something about him when you were around him: you felt good. You felt comfortable, you felt safe. You just felt good, you didn’t want him to leave. ‘Cos when he left he took it with him! And I don’t know how deeply spiritual some of the other artists were, but I felt it and I knew it! And that also made me feel very close, because we was like some buddy-buddy, you understand? Like, if you see him up the road and you see me down the road and so forth, so fifth, but whenever we came into contact we had that brother-feeling – you know that somet’ing special? I remember when Skill (Cole) used to come when I had a problem. And I was trying to get away from Skill, and I ran across the park and Skill ran after me and there was a little commotion, and Bob came over there and said, “Skill, wha’ yu an’ Jackie have?” And Skill was, like, get stubborn and all that, and he took Skill’s hands off of me. He said, “Wha’, yu seem to trouble him? Leave him alone! Don’t trouble ‘im! Leave him alone! Tek yu hands off him! Lef’ the man alone! Lef’ the BUMBACLAAT man alone!!” And he walked away – and I felt good, because of all the people that was there at the time nobody said: ‘Leave him alone’. It took the Gong! He just walked from where he was. And may his soul rest in peace. If there’s a life after death I’d love to see him again. Yeah.
So we’re not talking big jealousy among the Idlers’ Rest crowd for his overseas success, you felt proud somehow.
No, everybody wanted everybody to do good. You understand? Everybody wanted everybody to be successful, so you were very happy when somebody did great. Like, when Jimmy Cliff came in ‘The Harder They Come’, that day everybody was looking forward to go to the movie to see Cliff! That was our boy! When Eric Donaldson was bustin’ out with ‘Cherry Oh Baby’, most people know already that he was gonna win, so we were going there to support him to make sure that he won. You understand me? So, it’s not like today, you look at the dancehall thing and the artists of today, they need getting an understanding of what used to happen. And I just wanna tell you, that I am very deeply, very, very spiritually inclined. I believe in God, I know there is a God, I know there must be a God. Because man cannot run this system, man would’ve destroyed this system already, if there wasn’t somet’ing bigger than dem a control it. So me know there is a God. I, me, Jackie Brown, I am an instrument of life, an instrument of nature, an instrument of God. And that is when I sing, I sing to carry a message. I can’t sing for the Devil and mek Devil tune and Devil satisfying tune, and derogatory tune. Because I am chosen by the Almighty to do His work by bringin’ joy an’ happiness to the broken heart, the saddened minds. And this is why most of my songs is love songs, beca’ God is love. I nah sing no violence. Because when we pray to God, the prayer go forward up to Him, and the answer come back. So the Devil is there, so when you sing Devil song, yunno, a destruction you will down ‘pon yu people, yunno. You see all them violence wha’ gwaan ‘pon them state a Jamaica weh dem a artis’ dem a fight an’ a cuss bible – a Satan program dem deh! An’ the Devil a run dem t’ing da way deh. You no see, when dem have like Heineken Startime an’ the whole a artis’ group, a God dem t’ing deh, yunno. The pickney dem jus’ come out from somet’ing an’ come suck up the loving. Right. You look – let me tell yu somet’ing; if you turn on your TV you see people inna Asia ‘pon yu TV screen, but when you work you back ‘pon the TV, you nah see nobody inna it – but the people dem come inna it. If you listen to your radio like how you an’ me a talk ya now, ya ‘ear me through your phone – open your phone, me not in your phone, me deh ya a New York. But I am an instrument, so I receive the message from the universe, yunno. Me is like de receiver, yunno, I receive from the universe an’ bring forward to the people, yunno. So my message have to be good! But, fe an artist of my calibre, I don’t even get credit! And I don’t lick out ‘gainst that, ca’ me help a lotta people. I don’t get no credit. Some guy up there a say: ‘This a Jackie Brown’, and they say ‘Who? Jackie who?’ Because my message too rich fe dem ears, dem cyaan hear my message, beca’ dem a heathen! You haffe deal with love and God fe hear my message so. But I going sing till I die, an’ I going sing for God an’ I going sing the songs ‘Let’s Give Love A Try’, ‘Why Didn’t You Tell Me That You Love Me’, ‘I Wanna Dance With You’, yunno. ‘Send Me The Pillow (That You Dream On)’, dem kinda tune. Because people waan – the housewife ‘pon a Saturday want turn on her radio an’ hear a nice love song, or she inna de washroom an’ a wash, washing the clothes to the weekend, an’ she waan turn on the radio. She no waan hear ’bout no gun or no lootin’ or no shootin’ or no stabbin’ or no killin’ or no rapin’ an’ all dem sort a t’ing deh. That is destruction, yunno, and that is why me respec’ man again like Bob Marley, Burning Spear, Luciano, y’know. You see Sizzla? Sizzla is a good artis’, yunno, Sizzla is a very good artis’. He might not be all that a good singer, but him is a good artist. Because him carrying a message, ‘im always carry a message. Me love the artis’ dem weh carry a message, yunno. If yu a carry a message you are my artis’, man. Capleton an’ dem man deh, Junior Reid an’ dem man deh, you haffe carry a message. Ca’ if you nah carry a message, you nah seh nutten! But everybody cyaan carry the same message too (laughs)! You understan’ wha’ me a seh? Everybody cyaan carry the same message, everybody don’t haffe bu’n fiyah – but some fiyah fe bu’n still (laughs)! Yu understan’ wha’ me say? Some fire haffe bu’n! So with my vibration dem a bu’n fiyah too, with my song dem a bu’n fiyah. So me have dem bu’n fiyah, ’cause we a bu’n out the wicked dem, yunno. You understan’? An’ dem man deh haffe tell dem, tell de wicked seh dem a wicked! Sanchez is a very good artis’ too, him is right up my street, ’cause some artists haffe sing fe de ladies, yunno. Some singers haffe sing directly fe de ladies, me an’ Sanchez sing fe de ladies. Richie Stephens, Morgan Heritage, Beres Hammond – we a sing fe de ladies. We a more deh ‘pon the love light, yunno. And then yu have de message people dem now weh a bu’n fiyah – nuff fiyah too!
I think it came out about 1977, it’s called ‘Third World Children’.
Right, this is the one that deserves to come out again. As far as I know it’s never been on CD.
Yeah, right. But I work ‘pon it, ya know. I have a tune ‘pon it, bad tune on it (sings): ‘They wanna be born, they wanna be born, children of tomorrow they wanna be born, would you pledge Jah Jah they must be born, let’s get together and give them a hand, they are crying out we a suffer, the children of tomorrow don’t let them suffer, they see pollution on DNA, they see destruction waiting on their game, they are saying Lord we are gonna stop our children from dying, Lord don’t let them suffer…’. Is all dem t’ing deh a vision, yunno. Beca’ me used to see all dem violence an’ t’ings deh weh a gwaan. If I did deh ‘pon the other side of the fence or waiting fe come inna dis world ya, I wouldn’t even waan come. God make separation and destruction. Beca’ wha’ a lotta ways used to deh come every day an’ we jus’ eat an’ drink, and drive in our pretty car an’ change and shave and put our clothes on, have money in our pocket – a no dat God mek we offer. You cyaan defeat your purpose, y’know, you haffe find your purpose, yunno – there must be somet’ing beyond what we doing, but we haffe find we purpose. Beca’ there are billions of beings in the universe, in God’s Kingdom, waiting on to take our mortal body to become mortal human being to perform the works ya. So when we deh ya we a waste time, we a hol’ up somebody who waan come manifest dis ya t’ing among whe a gwaan now, nuh true? True. Yu understan’? But, y’know, the more dis interview a gwaan is the more, y’know, me haffe sing for it. An’ everyt’ing me haffe say to you, yunno, is a nobody idea, y’know. A man might no like it, me might seh somet’ing weh somebody nuh like or somebody don’t believe in, yunno, but every man is entitled to his own views, don’t it? Well, all right! This is what I believe in: Me nuh a come in dis world fe down on nobody or put down nobody or this and that, envy nobody or hate nobody or hurt nobody. Me jus’ come inna dis world with love, sing me music, y’know.
You’ve done that well. In your opinion, why do we look upon reggae as a message music, I mean, once upon a time it was nothing like that.
Let me tell you somet’ing; it come right back inna dem time deh people used to jus’ sing love songs, sing about – Derrick Morgan was a very strong, popular artis’ and leading artis’, and ‘im sing like (sings): ‘Hey, you a come all dressed in blue, stand up in the corner like you don’t know what to do…’. You know (sings): ‘Dance with me tada tadadaa – shake a leg…’. Um, ‘Manny O’ – it’s a great song (sings): ‘O Manny o, o Manny o, I love you so… ta da tadaa’. Derrick & Patsy (actually a Higgs & Wilson number). Yeah! ‘You don’t know how much I love you…’. So, Jackie Edwards a sing (sings): ‘Tell me darling, tell me you love me soooo…’. You know? So, Owen Gray (sings): ‘Millie, Millie, little girl…’. So all a them songs was just love songs, happy songs, you see me? At the time, Jamaica never really have no violence in a dem time deh, yunno. When all a man get killed in Westmoreland, it shock everybody who live all inna Portland. ‘Bwai, yu hear seh dem kill another man inna Westmoreland’ – it was a big cry fe hear a man fi kill another man a Westmoreland! Ca’ the whole a we a hear ’bout it and know ’bout a one man weh dead a Westmoreland (chuckles). Yu understan’ wha’ me a seh? So, Jamaica never have no violence, Jamaica was jus’ love – full love. So you jus’ sing about your girl, and tell a girl how much you love her and how much you want her, y’know, and that was it. But as the time start get more romp up with the politics and, y’know, the tricks and so forth, so good, so bad. Because I remember, touch a lickle bit a politics, yes? Me no want fe get too much involved, but Michael Manley father, back in 1960- something, tell the people of Jamaica seh, dem mus’ educate the pickney dem. Education is a must! An’ (Alexander) Bustamante seh him don’t waan no education. Mos’ a lickle bwoy I know go back a school in the area, dem seh we mus’ educate the children dem! Beca’ if you don’t educate the children dem, dem a come out to be bandits and robbers. Beca’ dem be on skill, and Bustamante seh: “Give dem salt fish, give dem flour, give dem sugar, we nuh waan no education”. Daddy Manley say: “When twenty years from now come, watch wha’ go ‘appen!” I dunno if anybody memba, because whe dem a try ‘appen, yunno, yu cyaan even blame de yout’ dem, yunno, you cyaan blame the youth dem. Dem have a right to go slide, dem have a right to this world. Is the people before weh used to make preparation fe all of us, yunno. And up to now, is the people here right now, supposed to make preparation for who is coming after us, yunno. And if you don’t make no preparation, dem a go doin’ war and rumours of war and bloodshed an’ all dem sort a t’ings! Me nuh waan fe really put this inna de interview, but… Ca’ if a yout’ grow up, an’ him don’t learn fe read an’ him don’t learn fe write, an’ him don’t have no skill, an’ he reach nineteen an’ twenty, an’ him have him girlfriend an’ dem have sex, an’ him girlfriend get pregnant, an’ she goin’ have a baby – now him haffe provide fe she and the child an’ him don’t have a skill, don’t have education, don’t have a job! How him goin’ feed dem?! But him entitled to that rights, fe have a woman. Ca’ the bible say him mus’ have a wife, an’ him entitled fe have sex, an’ him entitled fe have a child! So, if the people before, if him mother and him father, them make sure seh when him cyaan go a school, give him a trade! If him waan him can become a fisherman, or a carpenter, or a shoemaker, somet’ing weh can bring money. Him no have fe come rob! Who rob? Beca’ when him rob it’s not right, but a man haffe do wha’ him haffe do! An’ we cyaan see’t, yunno. We cyaan see it, ca’ we too corrupted in our own way. So wha’ we need fe do right now, yunno – is Jamaica yunno, the world, yunno, we need fe start make it… break down the house, an’ start build it up back! Dem lickle one ya weh a come now, mek – mek we try give dem good school, yunno, give dem trade, and twenty years from now dem have skill and trade, and can find job. So when me send my yout’, my personal adapter, yunno, yu understan’, when my child go a school an’ educate herself, dem stay with a car an’ go get them – dem a rob her. But, is because I help my own to be somebody, beca’ if my own not able to help herself, wha’ dem a go whey? Dem have child, dem haffe go rob somebody. So we haffe go equip the pickney right too, so dem don’t haffe grow up twenty years from now to become robbers and thieves and bandits. An’ we cyaan put them down, beca’ we nah put no preparation fe dem. We haffe mek it mandatory! Mandatory that every child supposed to go to school Monday to Friday. The government of Jamaica I talk ’bout, and the governments of the world. You see dem a fight fe power to put money in them pocket, and when them get money them fe help country, them put it inna dem pocket. Dem fe build schools! And you haffe find a parents, charge a parents, lock up a parents, beca’ it nah tek nutten fe get up a mornin’ time an’ dress the child an’ send the child to school. And in the meantime, you help the parents dem know that it’s not skill to go to programmes that dem learn a skill, so we gweh help the kids dem weh gwaan a school, and we gweh help the parents dem weh no have no skill. And we goin’ to put the country inna de right direction, and this world will become a better place – wrong or right? Right. You understan’. Me no waan talk too much ’bout that, ca’ music me a talk ’bout, but me jus’ a show you some facts, nah true?
True. But Jackie, why should we leave this out of the interview, like you said? I mean, sometimes you have to bring up those kind of issues, it’s important to emphasise these things too, isn’t it?
No, no, is your interview, man. If you like wha’ me say jus’ write what you like, man (chuckles).
True, true. True! Me glad wha’ yu understan’ whe me a come from, me glad yu understan’ wha’ me a say, because is care me care, yunno. Is care me care why me a say dem t’ings, ca’ sometime me heart bleed, yunno, sometime me heart bleed. Sometime me see all a yout’ inna de street, sometime me a look ‘pon a man an’ me seh, me seh: “Yout’, yu alright? Yu ‘ave money?” And so me a give a yout’ a ten dollar bill, yunno, or a five dollar bill – the yout’ haffe eat! Dem haffe eat, an’ dem entitled to every rights. Beca’ there’s a human being, an’ dem come inna dis worl’, but we haffe make preparation – we have to. An’ me tell this to the world, to whoever read this interview: let we jus’ make this world a better place, because fe make this world a better place, it will be better, yunno. I cyaan change it, but I can help with ideas to change it and if you listen to my songs, you will know my that I have good ambition. Right now I don’t make no money off the music, right now I don’t make no money, but I hope to make somet’ing. But I don’t really make no money offa de music, ’cause I get a lotta fightin’ in de music weh I no like to really talk ’bout still. But I get a lot of fight inna de music, for me is a good performer, me nuh know if you know that? Me is one of the best performers, one of the best performer that come out of Jamaica. Beca’ the man, the people who taught me to work stage, was the greatest performers of all times in Jamaica.
You have man named Toots Hibbert. Me work on a Toots fe about two years a next tune, an’ open up shows an’ a work amongst Toots, an’ learn all the skills from Toots. Me learn the skills from Alton Ellis. Carl Dawkins, when the man deh a work stage the man deh work, an’ is somet’ing deh weh me learn fe work. An’ anywhere me go an’ work me work hard, yunno, ca’ me not a superstar, me is an entertainer. There’s a difference between the superstar an’ the entertainer. The superstar is proud, the entertainer entertain. Him come fe bring love an’ joy, yu understan’. So when me deh ‘pon the stage I don’t t’ink I am no better than anybody who come fe see me or like no big-nosed superstar, I jus’ deh-deh an’ mix an’ mingle an’ have a good time and make sure everybody have a good time. Me not no superstar, me is an entertainer an’ musician. So all them superstar can take backseat, yunno, beca’ yu neva better than any artis’. You never better as an artist.
Too much skylarking, right?
Right, audience is firs’, yunno. Yeah man, me see a lotta juice inna de business, an’ me see a lot of things happen in our business, a lot me see. Me lift me hat again to Peter Tosh, ’cause me an’ Peter was close too, ’cause me an’ Peter used to dere amongst Joe Gibbs. Me work with everybody inna de business, yunno. Me work from Vere Johns come right dung deh now, yeah, sharing the stage with everybody, from Jimmy Cliff, Jacob Miller, Bob Marley, inna dem concerts sah. Me work with everybody – everybody inna my era! Share stage with them. Carifesta. We did a t’ing with Tinga Stewart, did a finalist deh an’ a couple more people, I don’t recall which tune dem come up with. Yeah. So, me waan tell the worl’ me pay my dues. So every world have to pay me back then, the world will pay me back. But if it’s not destined that the world will pay me back, then I won’t get no pay. Me nah do it fe get pay still, yunno, me a do it fe the love an’ bring out the message. At the same time bills haffe pay (laughs)!
(Laughs) I hear you. Why did you set up the Telegraph label, and when was this?
Yeah, what happened at the time was that I didn’t get the reward from the producers, then I did ‘Jah Jah Children’ for myself. ‘Miss Hard To Get’ I did for meself. ‘Sheep & Goat’ for meself.
‘Feel No Pain’?
Yea, ‘Feel No Pain’, ‘Blue’ me did for myself.
‘Bearded Babylon’ too.
‘Bearded Babylon’ I did for myself, ‘Girl You Lie’, ‘I Follow You’, ‘Knotty Vision’.
‘Knotty Vision’, which ended up (giving title to) the compilation of the same name that Nighthawk released back in 1984.
Right. I did ‘Laura’, ‘Love Galore’, that’s for me.
‘Mek Dem Gwaan’.
Mmm – I t’ink dat was for Sonia Pottinger, yunno. Now yu diggin’ up some t’ings weh me no even did remember, let me… me go out in the livingroom, go inna me bag an’ get some more information for some jokes. Yeah man, gwaan!
‘Mek Dem Gwaan’ apparently came out on the Suck Finger label according to Roots Knotty Roots, whoever had that one.
Who? Yeah?
It says it’s your production.
Yeah, I think that’s produced by me. But you know t’ings too? A lot of piracy go on with me too, because even Palmer (Pama/Jet Star), Mr Palmer put out a lot of me tune dem an’ don’t give me credit for dem, yunno. ‘One Night of Sin’, dem released it an’ put it as if Slickers do it. ‘Bam Bam Lulu’, that me do for Pete Weston.
Man behind the Micron label.
Yeah. ‘Babylon No Jester’, me do that for me. ‘Close By Your Side’, me do that for me. ‘Lion Head’, me do that for Prince Tony. ‘Tag A War (A Yard)’, me do that for Prince Tony, an’ ‘Dread Head’ too. ‘Love Galore’, me do that for me. ‘Message To Mary’, me do that for me. ‘Jah Jah Children’ aka ‘Feel No Pain’, me do that for me. ‘High Gear Festival’, me t’ink me do that for Hugh King.
Who was Hugh King?
He was the guy who did the movie name ‘Serious Thing’, yeah, the guy that act in the movie. Yeah. The Harry J album was ‘Third World Children’, the number one track was a tune called ‘Poor Man’s Portion’, then ‘One Step Beyond’, number three ‘One In You’, then we did a cover version of ‘007’, that was number four. ‘Pon the other side me do ‘Things Gettin’ Tough’, ‘When Jah Jah Come’, then me do ‘Third World Children’ the title track, then you have ‘Dance With You’. The third one, ‘When Jah Jah Come’ (sings): ‘When Jah Jah come, what will the wicked man say, when Jah Jah come it a go dreader than dread, what yu take from the blind man, yu take from the weak man, yu take from the babe an’ sucklin’, take a good look, good look around you, when Jah Jah come…’. Yeah man (laughs).
‘We miss you…’, which one I did that for again?
‘We Miss You’ for Suck Finger.
Yeah! Yeah, right. I think a Leroy me did that, me give that tune deh to, my brethren named Leroy.
You had another label called Cash.
Yeah. ‘Cash’, yeah, that was a very good label, one of my best label. ‘Cause you know why (chuckles)? The people dem wouldn’t pay, when you give them record them no waan pay, so me jus’ give them me… make the label name ‘Cash’.
(Chuckles)
(Laughs) That mean from when you see the label ya (chuckles)… dem know seh dem haffe pay cash, y’know!! And Lee Perry was so intrigued. First time Lee Perry saw the label, Lee Perry laughed, man (chuckles). He say, “Bwai, Jackie Brown, yu know yu a genius”. Yeah man. Me have another one off the Harry J album name ‘Holding On’. ‘Tom Drunk’, that me do for Prince Tony.
How did that link with Prince Tony come about?
My brethren, man. Me used to go a him store, go hang out a daytime, ca’ me a check him long time, y’know. Me did ‘Let Me Go Girl’ (sings): ‘Girl you hold me, trying to control me…’. I did that on my label too, yunno. Yeah.
You also did ‘Survival Is the Game’.
Yeah, Brent Dowe wrote it.
Right, from the Melodians. I think Marcia did the ultimate version of that tune for Mrs Pottinger though. Classic, a true classic.
Yeah. I was in the studio the night when Marcia (Griffiths) voicin’ that tune, and I wanted to sing the tune so bad because I loved the song. But Marcia was doin’ a perfect job, ca’ funny sometimes when a studio an artist voice a tune, an’ the artists nah manage the tune, yunno. And you deh-deh an’ yu seh to dem say, “Give me a one-shot ‘pon that tune deh?” An’ them give yu a one-shot ‘pon the tune deh an’ you do the tune, yunno. When me an’ Marcia fall-out ‘pon the tune, Marcia never fall-out ‘pon the tune an’ seh, “You jus’ haffe deh ‘pon the tune”. So later on up the road now me jus’ do the tune, y’know, it come out nice. You know wha’ I mean? Come out very nice. Marcia an’ Judy (Mowatt) is like me sister, yunno. Yeah, an’ Rita? Yeah, me and them three ladies deh come along we up the road, yunno, we always meet an’ greet (chuckles). But inna dem time deh everybody inna de music was like family, yeah, everybody was family, straight-up family. Everybody was jus’ family. It was no violence t’ing weh a gwaan deh now, cuss everybody ‘pon studio or… ya know dem. Because when God give you the gift, the talent of music, there is no higher power. When God give you the gift of music, yunno, is the greatest title that Him give you, y’know. You did know that? Yeah man! When the Father give you the gift of music and when He give you the knowledge of music – the power of music, nutten no lef’. A the greates’, Him give yu the greatest honour, when you become a musician, or in entertainment, because God give that to you. You don’t know how powerful you are, because you find your purpose. You is a journalis’, you goin’ mek people know – know, read, and hear of me, who would have never heard of me, read about me, if it hadn’t been for you. So you fin’ your purpose. So, whether you’re a journalis’, or a guitaris’, whether you are radio personality, whether you’re a singer, we’re inna one great, big arena. An’ me appreciate talkin’ to you, because you get a lot out of me weh, normally, nuff people try to get out of me but cyaan get out of me, because me nah feel the vibes an’ I haffe go somewhere else, me haffe cut the interview. Right now, a t’ing go down here in New York this week, an’ me show you people just after money. The radio station name WLIB is the number one Caribbean station, everybody – whether from Trinidad, Jamaica, Guyana, Barbados, St. Lucia, Antigua, Bermuda, Haiti – anywhere in the Caribbean, every morning and one day of the week, you can hear wha’ gwaan inna your country. And you have DJ’s a workin’ on the station, and up to last week, Monday mornin’, station a gwaan same way. And the people dem say ‘Lease out the station’, dem never even come on the radio an’ say to West Indian community, say ‘Bwai, changes a gonna go on’, an’ apologise ’bout it. Nutten! Them jus’ switch the station an’ talk show an’… like that! You see, is all about money! And we say is all about love. And a lot of people is hurt, because the Caribbean community dedicate themselves to this radio station, and the radio station just cut them off! Me have a lot of friend who work at the radio station who have them bills, have them youth a go a school, dem ‘pon de margin, dem have dem rent an’ all a dem sorta t’ing, an’ dem jus’ get up one day and dem no have no job! So, people don’t t’ink ’bout other people, they jus’ t’ink about them own being, well-being, y’know. You know, dat no right, it no right. Me have some good, good friend a work at the radio station, yunno, people who me see regular, the man dem kick dem lickle t’ing more time, get to a lickle show, get to a lickle dance, an’ dem help we fe survive, yunno. Now the man dem nuh have a job, the man dem jus’ throw the man dem through de window. We nah give up still, yunno, nah give up.
The album for Prince Tony in ’76, this was the debut LP you did for him, titled ‘Greatest Hits’. That was your first album as such?
Yeah. Well, I give him some of my material too, yunno, I give him some of my product, but yu know somet’ing? I never know the business, so him just say him want the tune dem fe de album, so me jus’ give them to him, yunno. Me neva have no agreement with him fe, like, dem fe lease the tracks from me an’ all dem sorta t’ing deh, yu know wha’ me a seh? Me jus’ give them to him, an’ him jus’ put out what him fe put out. And still him never give me no royalty! Never give me no royalty statement, no give me a dime! You see me? Him neva give me nutten, so I tek back the album now. Take the things an’ yu sing fe de man dem an’ you don’t get pay for your record, dem record your stuff an’ tek it an’ put it ‘pon album an’ sell the album, and still don’t pay nutten. That’s why dem still nah come-come to me an’ say anyt’ing, yu see, neva give we nutten. A whole heap a rip-off again inna de business – nuff! Nuff rip-off we get inna de business. But Jah is alive, Jah is alive. We have to pay the price.
Well, let me tell you how me see Rasta. You see Rasta business, Rasta business is a love business, is a truth and rights business, but you haffe brave to be a Rasta. But I neva locksed, I believe in the Rasta but I never locks. Beca’ you know why I never locksed? Too much tribulation, man, too much tribulation! Rastaman cyaan go no way, Babylon come an’ waan go beat him an’ all dem sorta t’ing deh, so me just keep my locks inna my heart (chuckles), you understan’ wha’ me a seh? Me never really carry a locks ‘pon me head, but we was born… Me is a Maroon, yunno, me is a Maroon (chuckles). Me is a fighter, my people dem come from Ghana, my ancestors come from Ghana inna Africa. We were kings, yunno, so me was kinda… cut-hair was my game, so me neva really locks. Beca’ dem days deh de Rastaman got a whole heap a punishment, police hold you in your hair an’ drag you down the road and all dem sort of t’ings deh. I never feel like (chuckles)… I too short fe go draw t’ings for a different Iration (laughs), but me never feel like go through all a dem sort of t’ing deh. Me never do that. Me like Rastaman, me like Rasta business. Them time deh me did like Rasta business, Rasta business was fun, and me like it, y’know.
Yeah, well, I was at home one day when Errol Scorcher come an’ tell me somet’ing that they looked for me, yunno. And it was a guy named Bob Schoenfeld and another guy named Leroy Prescott (Pierson), come from St. Louis, Missouri. We go up to the hotel and meet the man dem, they make much of me, tell me them listened to my tunes dem, and they t’ink me a great writer and so forth, so fifth, and them interested in some of my music. So we make some agreement, sign a contract, and they leased the tracks. I make some dollars, y’know. Them take some tracks from Bunny Wailer an’ couple more people, Ronnie Davis (Itals) dem. And as a fact of the matter, Nighthawk was the one that sponsored me to this country, y’know. Nighthawk Records, Schoenfeld, he was the man who brought me to America. Good guy, brought me to America. Because politics did a get too hot an’ me need it to tek a lickle break, so him say, “Alright Jackie, you want to come to America, mek yu come a America”.
What about your brother Castro? Even though he went to England in the seventies and set up the Morpheus and DEB labels, DEB in conjunction with Dennis Brown, did you have any common productions, like ever worked together?
No, we never work together. Two bull cyaan reign inna one pen. I’m a bull an’ him a bull, we a bredda but… we a jus’ bredda.
Never that close together?
Yeah, never that close. Beca’ him is a bully bredda, y’know, run t’ings an’ rule people an’ dem sorta t’ing deh. Me no like when man stick to me as friend an’ disrespect and fight yu too, I want to say that my pride still intact. Respect is due everytime. And if a man cyaan give me respec’ me cyaan deal with him, yunno. You see me? Because me nah disrespect people, ca’ me know what it is to be for a one to be disrespected, yunno. For a man disrespect you, you coulda all kill ‘im but me nah kill, yu understan’ wha’ me a say? So me try fe stay away from dem t’ing deh, dem disrespec’ business – me no deal with dem t’ing deh. If me have any brethren an’ dem respectful to other people, me no like that neither. So me drop them friendship too, y’know. Me old-fashioned, yunno, me from the old school, me grow up with me granny, y’know. And me mother and me grandfather and… so me kind of have the old-fashion part in me, y’know. Me nuh deal with disrespec’, boss, if yu disrespec’ people then yu cyaan respec’ yourself. Everybody is a person, them shall be treated as a person. Anytime you start fe disrespec’ people, me nah inna dat, nah inna dat. That’s why me nah deal with my bredda, ca’ my bredda disrespectful. Yeah, but away from that, me love him, beca’ blood thicker than water. Yu understan’ wha’ me a say (chuckles)?
Sure. I would like to know more about your productions with others, such as the one on your Sun Bird imprint by the Blue Bells, called ‘Freedom Fighter’ around 1979. Who were they, they did some work with Lee Perry and Tommy Cowan too, I believe?
Yeah, it was a group you know an’… but they just drop out of the scene and I never see them again. But I (chuckles) – I nearly forgot ’bout them too, lickle t’ing you bring it up! Yeah! Ca’ them just get missin’, an’ me do another production with another group deh. Um, me do a production – you remember Chenley Duffus? He died a while ago, two years ago.
Yes, I know. The guy who did ‘To Be A Lover’, originally.
Yeah. Me produce a songs for ‘im but me never released them, yunno, ca’ ‘Talk About Love’ (sings): ‘Everyday people talk about love, on the one thing they still do killin’ one brother, they say love to another, that ain’t no love…’. And I went to the studio one day, and lift me bag with some tape at the studio till the guy there pick it up the next day. And I go fe him the next day, and about a week later me go back there, ca’ one time him say him have the bag, and me call him a couple of times – all the tape gone. And me do another one name – with Naggo Morris (originally with the Creations).
‘Ethiopia Is The Land’?
Yeah!
With Naggo and Dean Stone together.
Yeah! That’s right.
Naggo Morris joined the Heptones around this time.
Yeah, that’s right.
Who was Dean Stone?
Dean…? I don’t even know wha’ Dean deh, y’know, Dean was Naggo’s spar, yunno, ca’ Naggo an’ Dean used to spar, ca’ Naggo never deh inna de Heptones yet, yunno. You see me? So, it was just Naggo and Dean (sings): ‘Ethiopia is the land whe dreadlocks come from, I man got to move out of Babylon…’. Bad tune too, yunno! Bad tune, man.
You still have them on tape? Any others you can recall?
Yeah. I did a lickle group deh, wha’ the guy name…? At the studio him used to sing like Ken Boothe…
Barrington Spence?
No, another one, man. Sing like Ken Boothe, man. Gosh, bro’, me haffe go search an’ find him name. Him do some tune deh fe me too, when you hear him yu t’ink a Ken, beca’ all them t’ing deh me have still.
You mean Douglas Boothe?
No. Wha’ the guy name…? Oh gosh, me nuh remember him name right now.
No. By the way, yu ever hear what happen to Tyrone Taylor?
I think he’s still in Jamaica, did some recordings for Wackie’s new label last I heard.
Oh gosh, what happened to Mr Tyrone Taylor… If a Tyrone dead that a big news, a no true? Yeah, I no wish dead fe no man still, I jus’ ask you an’ see.
No, he’s not dead, but he’s back in Jamaica now. What about ‘Black Green And Gold’ on the Orange label, sounds like a Festival song to me.
Oh! ‘Black Green & Gold’, me do for Hugh King (sings): ‘Black, green and gold, I am proud to be a Jamaican…’. And me do ‘One One Cocoa’, you did know about that one?
For Grub Cooper?
Yeah.
Haven’t heard it, no. And one for Dickie Wong of Tit For Tat fame, ‘Wet Baggy’?
‘Wet Baggy’ (chuckles). You see a lotta tune me do, nah true? Yeah. I do a few music, man.
So how come you entered dentistry?
Oh, you see it’s inna me family line, y’know, me have some uncle weh do it. Me jus’ waan fe do somet’ing different fe do. What actually happened, I was here and I was thinkin’ seh, bwoy, if things a get rough and me haffe go back a Jamaica, and the music not workin’ for me, I would a need a skill, don’t it? So I went to Magna school and I studied dentistry, graduate, an’ when I finish, I worked in the field fe a little time. But I realised seh, it an’ the music don’t work, ca’ the two a dem is demandin’. So me jus’ put it on the backburn again and just deal with music (chuckles). It’s your ball de you haffe play, Pete. Nah true?
Right.
Me waan say (chuckles), a nuff time me try run an’ left this ya music, yunno, and I have to come back to it, ’cause a me Father want it. So, right now, me nah too-too try fe fight it, y’know? Beca’ everything else me a go try, me come right back inna de music. So me jus’ gwaan a t’ing inna de music (chuckles).
So, futurewise, what can we expect from you? I hope you will do a proper job in cleaning up the ‘Greatest Hits’ and ‘Third World Children’ LP’s for a proper CD reissue, and what is uncollected from the Cash, Telegraph and Sun Bird labels, that this will come out again in some form.
Yes, actually, what I’m plannin’ to do, is to release those songs down the road very soon, maybe sometime next year. But I’m also gonna release an LP now, and like I say I’m not sure if it’s gonna be ‘The Melody of Jackie Brown – 20 Super Hits’, or ‘The Melody of Jackie Brown – 14 Super Hits’. And this will have a lot of the collector items that people are lookin’ for right now, like ‘Send Me The Pillow’, ‘One Night of Sin’, ‘Sheep & Goat’ and ‘Love Galore’, and all dem tune. Because people are asking for that album right now, and I know when that album come, I’m lookin’ forward for success and that I won’t – because people is definitely looking for it. In the meantime, I’m working on an album to be released, following the success of this one that is out now.
What was the current one out?
‘I Still Love You’. That one is out right now and it’s doing very, very good for me. And I’m very happy to see that the people has accept me with open arms, yunno. And I’m happy about that, I’m looking forward to be doing it for the rest of my life. Just bringin’ love, spread joy and bringin’ music to the people of the world.
’20 Great Hits’, or ’20 Super Hits’, which label is that, and was it only released in Brazil?
No, the official label now, because technology advance now an’ t’ing like that, so the old stuff is gonna come back on Cash label, it’s quite possible. The new stuff is gonna come on JMB… JBM – Jackie Brown Music, that is the mother label. So it’s quite possible that everything might come on JBM right now. Because I’m more organised now, me understand more in the business, me know more what is going on, and so everything will come on Jackie Brown Music. So that is gonna come out shortly, very, very shortly.
I almost forgot to ask you about the stuff you did for Ameri-Jam label, some twelve years back.
Yeahhh… Yes, the things that I sang was (sings): ‘I am looking for a woman or somebody who can love me only, but the woman…’ – I don’t even remember the name a the song, I think it name ‘Eyes For You Only’. Yeah, that was one song I did for Dougie Spear, I did that song for Douglas Spear. That was just one song, and that was it.
What I hope Jackie will put some effort in doing, is to re-release the said first two albums in its entirety, ‘Greatest Hits’ and the following LP ‘Third World Children’, this time doing a proper job in cleaning it up sonically for the rest of the world to hear – in digital clarity. These works deserves it. Don’t mistreat vintage music, you’re only doing a disservice to yourself and the music if that happen. The public will not accept anything less than quality, anything less than that will be harmful in the long run. Invest in your past work and you will reap the benefits off it. Some of Jackie’s ‘hits’ albums have been badly criticised for being a rush job, with a noisy sound, not filtered through any program whatsoever to get rid of disturbing crackle and pops or hiss, that just won’t do. Not today. Rumours get spread out like wildfire. If something is not up to standard people will know in seconds, because we have the world-wide-web to find out if products are worth purchasing – or not. Quality is the key as they say. Follow the demands of getting a decent standard on your product and the sales will follow. And Jackie have nuff great songs to compile in the future to come, tracks that have never been issued on CD, which would make a decent job even more crucial for the general appeal. His songs have a lasting feel about them. They’re very good to begin with, they would be even better if cared for. Jackie need to see the value of his back catalog and accordingly press up a few of his own independent productions to vinyl, why not begin with the Blue Bells title, followed by things like ‘Ethiopia Is the Land’ by Naggo Morris & Dean Stone. These would be appreciated in a big way, especially when so much new music is nothing but plastic, monotonous and superficial. Jackie’s music embodies the human spirit, flesh and blood, it heals and uplifts. It will take you through another day in moments when this seems unlikely. And by the way, I still believe he hasn’t lost his position as the housewife’s choice out there…
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